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Kiwis guide troops to al Qaeda
The New Zealand Herald ^ | 19.03.2002 | Scott MacLeod

Posted on 03/18/2002 11:24:43 AM PST by Blunderfromdownunder

New Zealand troops spied on al Qaeda forces in last week's fierce United States offensive in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan, say Israeli journalists.

The website debka.com said the elite Special Air Service troops were dropped on to mountains of eastern Afghanistan to spy on the build-up of al Qaeda and Taleban forces and guide 1500 US and Canadian troops in their assault, codenamed Operation Anaconda.

They and special forces from Australia and Norway worked in teams of three to five soldiers, hiding in caves above the snowline for up to four weeks.

Debka would not reveal its sources, but the website has scooped Western media several times this year and some of its revelations were confirmed in Australian defence force statements.

Debka editor-in-chief Giora Shamis said US forces had been troubled by security leaks among their Afghan allies, and tried to solve the problem by using New Zealand, Australian and Norwegian special forces in key roles.

Troops from those three nations were "seasoned in combat and intelligence gathering in high, snowbound mountain terrain".

In freezing temperatures, the troops were dropped into the rocky, snow-patched mountains around the Shah-i-Kot valley late last month to spy on al Qaeda, track their movements and mark targets.

Mr Shamis said the special forces operated at higher altitudes than the al Qaeda and were mostly unseen.

Towards the end of the battle - last week - special forces were engaged in fighting.

Mr Shamis did not know if New Zealanders were involved, but the Australian defence forces confirmed on Friday that they had been in the fighting.

When asked how the New Zealanders performed, Mr Shamis said: "From what I heard, they did a terrific job. They were the eyes of the attack."

Politicians and defence officials from New Zealand and Australia yesterday persisted in their policy of not commenting on the New Zealand SAS role in Afghanistan.

But their efforts have been undermined by the internet, which allows New Zealanders to access overseas reports.

On Friday, Prime Minister Helen Clark was forced to publicly acknowledge the SAS presence in Afghanistan for the first time when a White House website listed New Zealand's contribution, including that our forces had "recovered valuable equipment and forwarded it for exploitation".

An Australian Army spokesman was more forthcoming, giving an account that appears to tally with the Israeli reports.

Brigadier Paul Retter said 100 Australian soldiers played a "key role" in the fighting, and were among the first troops sent to the Shah-i-Kot battle area - the new front in eastern Afghanistan - after American forces overran the cave complexes of Tora Bora further north.

They provided "continuous observation", supported US ground troops and co-ordinated air strikes as the temperature hit minus 20C in the operation in which eight Americans died, their highest casualties of the war.

On Thursday and Friday, the Australians cut off enemy troops trying to flee to the south, killing more than 10. Brigadier Retter said the winter conditions were extremely harsh and demanding.

The number of New Zealand SAS soldiers in Afghanistan is not known, but has been estimated at between 18 and 30.

Little is known of the SAS apart from a rare open day in September 1998, when the SAS revealed it was able to deploy 25 soldiers above the snowline at any one time.

Its members are trained in a wide range of skills, including mountain climbing, surviving cold, hiking up to 80km each day with heavy packs, and laser-guiding bombs dropped from aircraft.

Internationally, the service was known for having perhaps the best trackers in the world.

The Debka website claims to have 4.2 million visitors a month.

Its staff rarely name their sources, but the site has received praise from several media organisations.

A reporter for Britain's Independent newspaper, Kim Sengupta, said US sources had repeatedly told him that New Zealand SAS soldiers had been in Kandahar with a Canadian contingent. He also heard they had been in Gardez, less than 30km from Shah-i-Kot.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; alqaeda; anaconda; kiwi; newzealand; nz; sas; shahikot; talibanlist; warlist
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To: aimlow
,,, let's get clear of your preoccupation and shift to a more meaningful dialogue. If there's no less than 36 countries behind the US in their crusade (NZ being one of them), given the resources at our disposal and your intimate knowledge of how the US would like those resources deployed, where is NZ going wrong?
21 posted on 03/18/2002 3:01:46 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: KEVinSHANNONnz
ping
22 posted on 03/18/2002 3:35:26 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: aimlow
Well, most of our military is off keeping the peace in East Timor; you know, that Christian country that Kissenger and Nixon gave free reign to Muslim Indonesia to invade. I am afraid the US efforst in A-Stan are a victim of unfortunate timing. ALso, thans you America for all your help in bringing to justice those terrorists who bombed the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland Harbour sixteen years ago, much appreciated.
23 posted on 03/18/2002 3:55:27 PM PST by Blunderfromdownunder
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To: aimlow
Obviously, some terrorist has been messing with my keyboard in an effort to make me appear foolish before the world. But despite the spelling mistakes and ommissions, I am sure you get the point.
24 posted on 03/18/2002 3:59:57 PM PST by Blunderfromdownunder
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
I am sure you get the point.

Big assumption there Blunder. Perhaps the learned and articulate gentleman would prefer to vent himself to Comrade Helen rather than the right-minded Kiwis on this site.

Cheers and thanks for the ping.

25 posted on 03/18/2002 5:59:42 PM PST by mgstarr
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To: Blunderfromdownunder
Has DEBKA acquired some real sources or is this more of their usual? Last I heard, the Kiwis weren't very interested in an Afghan adventure.
26 posted on 03/18/2002 6:03:41 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
,,, OK, so they're not there at all.
27 posted on 03/18/2002 7:18:46 PM PST by shaggy eel
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To: aimlow
The NZ SAS are the best tracker elite unit in the world.
28 posted on 03/19/2002 4:15:55 AM PST by dennybabyboy-fitzy
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To: shaggy eel
shag...

There is a thread bout the Brits sending troops to Afghan. I do expect you to look it up and check my post. To post such was very painful but I do have some integrity.

29 posted on 03/19/2002 4:41:13 AM PST by cynicom
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To: shaggy eel
Yeah don't let these guys get your panties in a knot, they trash us canukleheads all the time. They are just living proof that incest has not been entirely stamped out in the good ole U.S.A.
30 posted on 03/19/2002 9:41:50 AM PST by canuckwest
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To: dennybabyboy-fitzy
So? My point is NZ contributes nothing. They have given up any responsibilty for sharing in any form of defense of themselves. East Timor? Once again without US logistical support nothing would have been done. As they are your neighbors glad to see you finally decided to give a care.
31 posted on 03/19/2002 10:00:23 AM PST by aimlow
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To: canuckwest
Incest comments from a canadian talking about the US are funny except for the fact that you are completely dependent upon america. Makes it kind of sad.
32 posted on 03/19/2002 10:03:27 AM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
So, you like to dish it out but you can't take it eh! That is even sadder. You Americans should be thankful that you has real friends like N.Z, Oz, Canada and the Brits and stop whining.
33 posted on 03/19/2002 11:01:20 AM PST by canuckwest
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To: canuckwest
,,, hey mate! Thanx for those words of support.
34 posted on 03/19/2002 11:25:12 AM PST by shaggy eel
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To: aimlow
,,, six billion people on the planet and you get to be the judge. Let me just get my crayon out and try to frame this a bit better for you. New Zealand has a total population of 3,8 million people. As it's history has unfolded, no Prime Minister or government has ever steered us toward the notion of becoming a superpower. We sit above the south pole, we grow carpet wool, sheep meat, produce dairy products, processed fish, forestry, wine, computer software and host tourists. It's a delightful place to live a life apart from having a Marxist governement at the helm right now and hellish tax rates applied to low salaries.

We have two very new frigates, 109 or so LAVs are on order for the army and the Air Force exists totally to rescue Helen Clark from around the globe, where she spends most of her time.

Our defense policies are down the toilet - YES, you're right. However, our troops who specialise in mountain warfare seem to be doing what they do best under command of US movers and shakers. I'm betting the synergy with US and other troops is more than you'd ever be capable of when wheeling your shopping cart thru aisles at your local supermarket.

Get onto the internet and look at what your population and GDP is against New Zealand's and let it all fall into place.

35 posted on 03/19/2002 11:39:18 AM PST by shaggy eel
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To: canuckwest
Can't take it. HAHAHA. You have nothing to give. Support, words are about all that the rest of the western world has proven good for, but what would you expect from socialist. Europeans couldn't even manage to get to a fight on their own continent without american help. Canada, they are great for thinking that there opinion counts. The only regiment they had that was worth a damn was disbanded. NZ, what military? A few SAS trackers, so what? At least the australians have a robust 30,000 man army, air force, navy. Face it chumps, you are has beens and wantta be's, and never got there's. Who gives a care what your socialist countries think. Coalition warfare is a mistake the US did in desert storm and hopefully will not be repeated by bush junior.
36 posted on 03/19/2002 11:39:33 AM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
If it was your ass in Afghanistan with Taliban bullets whizzing around your honker, you would be more than happy to have a Canuck or a Kiwi on your side risking his ass. Ah, who cares you would not get it anyway.
37 posted on 03/19/2002 11:56:14 AM PST by canuckwest
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To: aimlow
If it was your ass in Afghanistan with Taliban bullets whizzing around your honker, you would be more than happy to have a Canuck or a Kiwi on your side risking his ass. Ah, who cares you would not get it anyway.
38 posted on 03/19/2002 11:56:41 AM PST by canuckwest
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To: aimlow
,,, Guadal Canal, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Somalia.
39 posted on 03/19/2002 11:57:46 AM PST by shaggy eel
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To: canuckwest
After 15 years in the USMC jack I have proven my contribution to freedom, how much you want to bet all you are good for is reading bullshi+ from a rag like debka and taking it at face value. I have seen nothing on any troop list about anyone other than brits being outside of kabul. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just have not heard it nor seen it. And it is spelled Guadalcanal.
40 posted on 03/19/2002 12:13:59 PM PST by aimlow
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