True unbelievers Events of Sept. 11 have atheists "coming out' to face an unaccepting society

SF Chronicle ^ | 3-10-02 | Sam McManis

[Oldeconomybuyer]

Way in the back of an ornate and dimly lit German restaurant in San Francisco, partitioned off from other Saturday night diners, sits a group packed in two long rows of tables. Chewing bratwurst and the fat, they are as old as 80 and as young as 22. They are black, white, Asian, hailing from as far away as Zimbabwe and Australia or as close as Daly City. Some know each other; some are strangers. All seek support and comfort from those who understand.

[MissAmericanPie]

I find it very hard to believe atheists are discriminated against, I rather think what bothers them is their lack of power to discriminate against believers.

I'm sure listening to "God Bless America" is like hearing finger nails dragged across a blackboard to them and they feel left out. Well gee, when you hold yourself apart, I guess you are left out. If you don't have enough compassion for your fellow man to quietly induldge the majority in their beliefs during a tragedy, then a person is right to leave himself out of the equation. I guess they just want to whine about it.

[NeoCrusade]

Hi there, glad to be here. I'm not interested in bashing Christians or any other groups for their religious beliefs. I can understand that Christians would like to "save my soul", and that's fine if they want to present their point of view and then just respect mine. I don't like it when people stick it in my face and shove it down my throat. I don't like it when homosexuals do it, I don't like it when minority victim groups do it and I don't like it when religious groups do it.

"Do you think your professed atheism requires faith?"

I don't know, I never really thought about it. I don't get wrapped up in the semantics or word games of it.

It's too bad atheists get stereotyped like everybody else, but that's the nature of the beast.

[anniegetyourgun]

ROFL!

[mountaineer]

"If I were to say what I am, I'd be blackballed from jobs -- banned," he said. "I'm serious. I'm doing a job now in Walnut Creek where, if I declared who I am, they'd take away the contract."

Oh please. Does being an atheist also mean one must be paranoid and delusional?

[Urbane_Guerilla]

Belief in God, I understand ... agnosticism, I understand ... but to affirmatively say, "there is no God," that I do not understand ... there is no intellectual construct which permits the human mind to eliminate the possibility of an intelligent creator ... there might be one, it is just beyond the comprehension of human intelligence ... on the other hand, the human mind can conceive of God ...

To call oneself an atheist is an act of pride.

[Melas]

Pure unadulterated Bravo Sierra. Atheists discriminated against? Where? I'm an atheist, and I live smack dab in the middle of the bible belt, and I cannot think of a single instance where I caught the slightest bit of grief for not believing. Christians as a whole have been more than accomdating. Sure, there have been some knock down drag out fights over certain policies on occasion, but very little animosity in real life. Only on the internet, and on television have I ever seen any real hostility towards atheists.

I suggest that the members of this little group have elevated whining to a new level. The whole concept of a group of atheists boggles my mind even. I can't imagine meeting with a group to discuss what I don't believe. Am I the only atheist who doesn't see the logic in this?

[watchin]

The important thing to remember is that most atheists ARE nice moral people. The point of your statement is not that atheists are evil or immoral, but that they're inconsistent.

They reject the existence of God, but then clamor to prove they are "moral" - even though the word has no real meaning in a world without God. Any effort to establish a morality apart from God inevitably relies on the religious traditions they claim to reject. Non-violence, universal rights, and cooperation with others are seen as self-evident priciples, and anyone who dares challenge the validity or question the foundation of those precepts in an atheistic system is typically insulted and belittled for his free-thinking. (e.g. when asked for the source of some universal right, a typical answer is, "How can anyone question the universal right to blah blah blah? You must be a liberal commie pinko fag.")

The reason for this is that there is no validity to those precepts; they are hold-overs from the system they claim to have left behind. This then leaves only two options - 1. Accept the rules and therefore the existence of God. 2. Reject God and live in a world without rules. Option number two sounds liberating and appealing, until it is realized that the other guy has no rules, either. Since neither option is acceptable, it's easier to call names than to think about it.

C.S. Lewis nailed it when he pointed out the circular reaonsing - that selfishness is "bad" because it harms society, and harming society is bad because it's selfish. The atheist will resort either to "self-evident axioms" or throw up his hands and challenge you to come up with a better source of morality outside of God - in spite of the fact that it's his job to defend his belief system.

They may claim to do what's "right" for different motives, but they fail to see that "right" is a "moral" distinction that evaporates in a world without God.

[watchin]

"I can't imagine meeting with a group to discuss what I don't believe."

A mark of sanity.

[mymanbush]

Christians

Gunowners

[Melas]

Upon further reflection, I've decided that the events of September 11, have made life easier for atheists in America, if it has had any effect at all. After all, we're atheists, and not muslims. Not Muslim is a very positive thing these days. :)

[Zorobabel]

Another "oppressed" minority with a litany of grievances. Sheesh, when will it ever end?

[NeoCrusade]

I believe that men wrote every "holy book" and came up with every dogma and philosophy - I do not believe that morality is handed down by a flaming whirlwind. Therefore I agree pretty much with the Judeo-Christian principles of the Ten Commandments and The Golden Rule. There is no contradiction there - I believe men came up with those things and I happen to agree with them.

[Exnihilo]

Add Christians to the list. Last night's SNL was a prime example of how "funny" it is to mock Christians and Christian values.

[sola gracia]

Christians can release the guilt of falling short in that quest through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ who lifts that burden from our shoulders.

Amen, preach it!!! I once was separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and a stranger to the covenant of promise. But now, I have been brought nigh and have peace by the cross of Christ.

[Gritty]

Pure unadulterated Bravo Sierra. Atheists discriminated against? Where? I'm an atheist, and I live smack dab in the middle of the bible belt, and I cannot think of a single instance where I caught the slightest bit of grief for not believing.

Correct!

I think what we see being played out here is the establishment of another special interest group that has been "discriminated against" and is looking for some lawsuit material or to become a protected special interest group. After all, this is San Francisco!

[Melas]

It's that or an excuse to whine. Whining has become an art form these days. Feeling lonely? No date for Saturday night? Well, obviously you must be part of some oppressed class of citizens. I thought I had too much time on MY hands, until I read about these guys. The whole concept of meeting to discuss what you don't believe still boggles my mind.

[watchin]

"I believe men came up with those things and I happen to agree with them"

Then you would say that those who defy such "things" are not actually "wrong" or "evil", but merely in disagreement with you. If men made it up, other men should be free to ignore it. Someone else might believe that lying is good, rape is virtuous, and stealing is honest?

I'm curious about your view here ... is anything wrong or evil, or is it really up to us to toss a coin and decide? If you come to the conclusion that there are absolutes, where did they come from, and how did we find them?

[NeoCrusade]

Look, you're wanting to paint me with the moral-relativist brush just because I don't believe one requires a divine mandate to figure out that rape or murder is wrong.

What makes civilization civilized? It would be in large part the organization of government and the application of laws (any good Freeper should know this). So essesntially, a majority of people decide that a certain thing is wrong and punishible and give the government power to enforce. There are plenty of people who defy such "things" and they are prosecuted and punished.

"Someone else might believe that lying is good, rape is virtuous, and stealing is honest?"

Hey, look around man. There are plenty of people like that. They're called criminals.

[editor-surveyor]

"Way in the back of an ornate and dimly lit German restaurant in San Francisco..."

Would that be the Rathskeller? (AKA Rat cellar) Hangout of the freaks in a town devoted to freaks. Once the hangout of Edward Abbey, Jack Loffler (AKA Travis T Hip), Anton LaVey and numerous other well known freaks, all of which have at one time or other sworn that there is no God, but a couple of them now know better, I suspect.

Athiests persecuted? What a laugh! Especially in the Bay Area; it's a badge of honor.

"talibornagains"

By the most reasonable freepers here, right, 'MoM' ??

[RnMomof7]

By the most reasonable freepers here, right, 'MoM' ??

The blood of Calvinists bought freedom of speech.

I will never cease to be amazed that the ones that most value free speech are slandered by other conservatives with the "talibornagain" label..and then they give the left permission to use it as ammo to beat Christian conservatives .

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!