I AM KEENLY AWARE OF THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY.

My name is Sherry Peel Jackson. I became a Certified Public Accountant in 1987, I was an Internal Revenue Agent in the Atlanta District for 7 years, and I became a Certified Fraud Examiner in 2001. I am here to summarize the tales of ignorance and deception that you have heard over the last two days and I am here to inform you of the state of the nation so that you may choose your next course of action.

You have heard the truth of how the Internal Revenue Service, Department of Justice, Federal Reserve and politicians have perpetuated this smoke and mirrors - dog and pony show on you the American people for over 88 years. You have heard of American families devastated by the invasion of privacy and unbridled fear placed upon them through threats of liens, levy's and even jail time. In my tenure as an IRS agent, I personally saw marriages broken, families torn apart, homes confiscated and businesses destroyed - all while my colleagues and I were out making unjust demands on the American people - without the proper authority. Now, you be the judge.

You have seen that Commissioner Charles Rosatti, Dan Bryant, the majority of our congressional delegation and other civil servants have refused to do their jobs. It would have been as simple as answering the questions of these well-educated researchers in a public forum, such as this one. But they have reneged, so you be the judge.

You have learned that the Constitution of the United States of America has been trampled on and ignored through allowing the privately owned Federal Reserve to create paper currency and charge you 47 million dollars in interest per hour - money coming from the mouths of your children and the college education funds of your grandchildren, all the while the children and grandchildren of the owners of the Federal Reserve will never have to work a day in their lives, and that is wrong, on so many different levels.

And let me tell you, that as a black woman I am keenly aware of the history of slavery. But do you understand that we are all slaves to this system? Do you understand that the media and Hollywood play a part keeping the American people so fixated on Alley McBeal, WWF Smackdown, Moeisha and the Practice that we don't take time to read the Creature from Jekyll Island, study the Internal Revenue Code and learn the Constitution?

Now, let me spend just a minute to address my culture. Do you realize that the so called black leaders make millions of dollars every year playing the "us against them" role - keeping blacks focused on the race card and away from the real issue - the theft of our future through taxation.

These publicity mongers are well aware of the oppression brought on by income taxation, they love to march on Washington about racial profiling and civil rights, not to say that these are not real problems, but these leaders have been too afraid to approach the powers that be and have a million man, woman, boy, girl march about economic freedom from income taxation and restoration of constitutional rights.

Also, there's been a lot of talk about reparations lately, but know this: If all Americans were able to keep the money withheld from their paychecks every year, that money would enable them to home school, start their own business and boost the economy, save for college and retirement, even buy that 40 acres and a mule. So, you be the judge.

You need to understand that with an Internal Revenue Code, Code of Federal Regulations, and other "official documents" spouting off several different definitions of United States, Internal Revenue Service and other important terms, this deception that keeps people ignorant is not a coincidence. The writers of the Code used semantics and legalese to make us think that we are required to pay the income tax and file an income tax return. Former IRS commissioner Shirley Peterson even stated that, and I quote, "Eight decades of amendments….to (the) code have produced a virtually impenetrable maze….The rules are unintelligible to most citizens….The rules are equally mysterious to many government employees who are charged with administering and enforcing the law." End quote.

This fraud was strung together by people like the former president that said "it depends on what your definition of is is" and "it depends on what your definition of sex is". This incident showed us that definitions are very important to politicians and lawyers, and no word is meaningless. For example, it does depend on what the definition of "source" is.

The opposition, in an attempt to keep the sheeple in the flock, will scoff at us and encourage unaware Americans to ridicule those of us who have been informed, saying, "these people just don't want to pay their fair share." We have already learned from a speech by former Federal Reserve Chairman Beardsley Rhuml that this country doesn't need income taxes for revenue. This money collected from our sweat and tears is used to perpetuate redistribution of wealth, among other things. But the powers that be keep beating the people over the head with this "fair share' garbage. Well, what is fair share? Haven't the families of the victims in New York City and the pentagon paid their fair share? Haven't the men and women that lost sons and daughters, husbands in wives in Vietnam, Korea and the other battles paid their fair share? So you see, this tactic to pit those that are uninformed of the income tax fraud against those who have seen the light is baseless and must be eliminated!

The opposition also uses our religious faith to twist the meaning of authority and to create unjust statutes. People, I know godly authority and our current system does not reflect godly authority. Many of our past and present religious leaders have been jailed for questioning authority. They have been beaten, starved and even killed for their faith and their defiance of injustice. People of America - is what you're living for worth dying for? Are you willing to take a stand? It's your choice.

The creators of this Creature called the income tax, engineered their system to manipulate you into staying in your comfort zones. With a little bit of patriotism and a little bit of fear tactic mixed into a pot of inflation and deflation, they have been able to keep the people confused, intimidated and obedient for over 88 years.

But now the truth about the fraudulent origin and operations of the Federal Reserve System and the Internal Revenue Service have been revealed to the American people. You can no longer claim ignorance of the truth. You must acknowledge it or reject it. The choice is yours. And the consequences of your decision will rest on the shoulders of your children and future generations of Americans.

You can remain an informed slave or you can get off of the plantation. You can remain engrossed in fear, or you can take a stand like Patrick Henry who shouted "give me liberty or give me death." You can stay hypnotized by "As The World Turns" and "The Guiding Light", or you can turn off the bube tube and read the Constitution, then go ask your elected representatives why they refuse to follow it. Remember that those elected representatives have sworn to uphold and defend our constitution.

Remember that each of our elected representatives has pledged to serve our country first-not a political party, or certain privileged and special interests groups-but you, the American People. They are our public servants.

In closing, we have shown you the truth. Now, for the sake of our Country and our children, we ask you to choose justice over injustice, unity over division, courage over fear, truth over ignorance, and liberty over economic slavery.

We ask you to stand with us and let the voice of freedom be heard from every corner of our great country. It is time to end this long-standing injustice and tyranny over the American People.

Note: These comments were presented at the Close of the Citizens' Truth-In-Taxation Hearing. Washington D.C., February 27-28, 2002

The NRST won't do anything to shrink the cancerous growth of government.

The purpose of the NRST is to make taxes visible and assure that all citizens participate in the tax system letting people know what freebees for votes is really costing them.

You think no taxes on you will cause government to stop growing? You are forgetting that no taxes puts everyone on the gravy train, and the gov just cranks up the presses, or extracts the tax from business blaming it all on the boogyman "inflation". No brakes to the train buddy.

Walter Williams makes it very clear what is going on now, and you want to make it worse, or is it you want to be on that gravy train, arming the dragon.

Walter Williams, World Net Daily, 10-25-2000

According to the most recent U.S. Treasury Department figures, in 1997 the top 1 percent of income-earners (those with income of $250,000 and higher) paid 33 percent of all federal income taxes. The top 5 percent of income-earners ($108,000 and over) paid 52 percent, and the top 50 percent ($36,000 and over) paid 96 percent of income taxes. Guess what the bottom 50 percent of income earners paid?
If you're among those who pay little or no federal income taxes, what do you care about tax cuts? Moreover, if you think tax cuts pose a threat to government handout programs, you might be openly hostile and support Al Gore's silly "risky scheme" talk. So many Americans paying little or no federal taxes makes for a natural spending constituency. It's like me in the restaurant: What do I care about extravagance if you're footing the bill?

Guess what happens when you have representation without taxation that you are advocating.

70% of the voting public clamors for more from government looking for the top 40% of taxpayers to foot the bill.

The call for representation without taxation is the formula that got us where we are at today. The ability to hide or disguise taxation from the view of large sectors of the electorate allows the Congress to get away with the creation of the evergrowing monster that it fosters.

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw

Liberty and freedom have a price, responsibility. If that price is avoided there are no brakes on the growth of government, the ultimate result is the end of freedom through creeping socialism.

How does one exercise "Eternal Vigilance" with horse blinders on.

People get the government they deserve, because we elect the scoundrels that buy our votes. Highest bidder wins.

Glood to know which camp you are in.

preparing dummy returns, seizing private property without due process and committing mail fraud with bootleg notices --

Preparing "dummy" return? Congressamandates the preparation of returns in providing documentation of the IRS's estimate of your income/tax owed as part of the administative procedure to assess a tax when no return is filed by a citizen.

seizing private property without due process?

What you may believe to be due process or not is not the controlling factor,

Refer, Subchapter D Part I. & Part II, there lay the rules for Due Process & Levy in regards to tax collection according to your favorite Congress, enacted under the authority of the Constitution for the United States of America, Article 1 Section 8 Clause 1 and Article I Section 8 Clause 18. And in accord with

295 U.S. 247 (1935)

", the usual procedure for the recovery of debts is reversed in the field of taxation. Payment precedes defense, and the burden of proof, normally on the claimant, is shifted to the taxpayer. The assessment supersedes the pleading, proof, and judgment necessary in an action at law, and has the force of such a judgment. The ordinary defendant stands in judgment only after a hearing. The taxpayer often is afforded his hearing after judgment and after payment, and his only redress for unjust administrative action is the right to claim restitution. But these reversals of the normal process of collecting a claim cannot obscure the fact that after all what is being accomplished is the recovery of a just debt owed the sovereign."

United States Codes

TITLE 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE
- SUBTITLE F - PROCEDURE AND ADMINISTRATION
  - CHAPTER 64 - COLLECTION
    - SUBCHAPTER D - SEIZURE OF PROPERTY FOR COLLECTION OF TAXES
      - Part I. Due Process For Collections
      - Part II. Levy

So please provide us with some specific instances with real documentation.

That does not mean however that IRS agents do not screw up. They do and frequently, that is not however due to lack of due process under the tax law, or lack in the statutes defining such. In those instances of agent abuse there are procedures for redress, and civil suit that can be successful when the evidence actually supports the claims.

committing mail fraud with bootleg notices --

That's a real stretch when notices are standardised fill in the blank forms whose content is specified by law.

How about some specifics, as most complaints I have heard that had substance to them resulted in agents getting hit by the courts criminally where warranted, and civilly when supported by preponderence of the evidence.

Others that I have seen, more often than not, are pure sour grapes of someone who got tromped on because they refused to follow the due process laid out or the steps they should have take, and are clearly stated in all those notices.

You expect more than that maybe?

If you don't like the income/payroll tax system then you should be working through support of legislation to end it. Trying to ignore it or pretend the law is not valid is just another way to self destruction rather than doing anything constructive about it.

Let's try to stay on point old man.

Now I will admit that I erred in asking you where is paragraph (a) In a notice of intent to levy.

I should have been asking you to explain where paragraph (a) is in the Form 8519, Notice of Levy

Now you know this but those unititated to the fraud may not....

Paragraph (a) is conveniently left out of the Notice of Levy because it ties the hands of the fraudmeisters.

Now if you would like to rebut that one simple point please do so by all means. I don't want to see any more of your cut and paste crap. Simply explain, from your point of view, why the fraudmeisters leave paragraph (a) out. (but put in paragraphs (b) and (c) of the IRS Code.

I should have been asking you to explain where paragraph (a) is in the Form 8519, Notice of Levy

You still don't get it do you. There is no "paragraph(a)" in a Notice, any notice. The paragraphs contained in notices are not indexed.

Now you suggest there should be something you refer to as a paragraph (a) in a Notice of Levy.

Now you know this but those unititated to the fraud may not....

You read minds now? I know I don't. And I do not have even the vaguest notion of what you are talking about.

because it ties the hands of the fraudmeisters.

Well point us to a sample of a taxpayers copy of a Notice of Levy form 8159, and lets look at it, and take the statues and see what is required by law to be on that form.

Tell me where a paragraph such as you believe to be missing from a "Notice of Levy" is specified in the statutes and what its content should be.

If it ain't there in the Notice there certainly is no way anyone comment on it. Especially not knowing what you are speaking about.

This is what I find on the internet in regards to the taxpayers copy of Notice of Levy for 8159. so far I have not located an example of a taxpayer copy of the Notice of Levy, form 8159.

http://www.michaelddaniels.com/liens_and_levies.htm

BANK LEVY

When issuing a bank levy, a FORM 668-A(C), NOTICE OF LEVY, is sent directly to the financial institution. A FORM 8519, TAXPAYER'S COPY OF NOTICE OF LEVY, is sent directly to the taxpayer. The financial institution is required to freeze any account related to the taxpayer named on the levy. Accounts will be frozen to levy monies up to the full amount stated on the notice. Any funds greater than the amount shown will be made available to the account holder. Institutions may take 24 hours for this process.

Any funds deposited by the account holder AFTER a Notice of Levy is issued are not subject to that notice. A subsequent Notice of Levy must be issued to freeze any subsequent deposits. The financial institution will hold the funds up to the full amount of the levy for 21 days before transmitting to the IRS. This 21day period allows taxpayers to contact us and negotiate alternative solutions to the outstanding balances.

Taxpayers whose offers are rejected and who made good faith revisions of their offers and resubmitted them within 30 days of the rejection would be eligible for a continuous period of relief from collection by levy. see section on offer in compromise.

The form you are talking about is what is given you as a copy of the documentation served on a bank to freeze your accounts, after you have ignored the Notice of Intent, and a full Levy is imposed as in the above case on a bank account.

Now show us an example, and what the statutes sat must be present on the taxpayer's copy of such a notice.

The federal government is corrupt.

Yep, in many respects it is. It can only reflect the state of moral virtue of the people as a whole. The representatives that make the laws, come from the people and nowhere else.

Millions of citizens send the bulk of their life's productivity to Washington every year,

Somewhat overstated, but still too much in anycase.

out of fear and intimidation,

Mostly those who would rather evade the tax, and are afraid of being caught at it. Law does kind a work that way you know.

although the courts will tell you that you have filed your return voluntarily, therefore they can use the information against you.

Only if you are dumb enough to lie, or provide information that is indicative of a crime. Don't give them details of your crimes and you have no problem. The fifth amendment is there and allows you to challenge giving crime specific details about yourself. Amount of income simply doesn't fall in that catagory.

Of course if you have committed a crime and don't want to say "neighborhood drug dealer" as an occupation, you could always just not file the return, and hope they don't catch up with you otherwise.

Filing a truthful return, does not jeopardise anyone, you are allowed general descriptions of occupation, amount of income is in no way evidence of crime of itself.

The courts tell you, you may make a 5th challenge any question on the tax forms you can demonstrate in closed evidentiary hearing would lead to conviction of a crime.

That is not the mark of a free people.

You are not free to violate laws, any laws. I'll agree, the income tax is not a mark of a free people, it is a symptom of a corrupt and corruptable society however.

Change the law, violating it just points to loss of property and potentially liberty.

The fact that Uncle Sam has the power to send innocent people to jail and label them "tax protestors" or "tax rebels" who don't "pay their fair share" .

One who violates the laws enacted under the authority of the Constitution ain't innocent my freind.

does not change the fact that it is corrupt

Then change it, push for laws that encourage participation of all the electorate in keeping the lid on government execess.

You think a government that does that is okay; I don't.

I do? You have no idea what I think is ok. That is obvious from the tenor of your post. Your strawdogs do not fit the bill.

On this point we will never agree.

The only point I see is a strawdog argument that is meaningless to the real debate.

The real debate is what should be done to make things different, rather than mere bitches that you don't like paying taxes. No-one likes paying taxes. That does not make the law invalid or unconstitutional. It just means that to make a change will take more work and less sour grapes. The sour grapes, are wasted energy.

There's really nothing more to debate.

You have yet to debate anything, you have only complained, apparently expecting someone else to fix your red wagon for you. It don't work that way.

Paragraph (a) is conveniently left out of the Notice of Levy because it ties the hands of the fraudmeisters.
Now if you would like to rebut that one simple point please do so by all means.

If you mean, "subsection(a)" of

26 USC Section 6331 Levy and distraint

(a) Authority of Secretary
If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the Secretary to collect such tax ... by levy upon all property and rights to property belonging to such person ..."

I don't want to see any more of your cut and paste crap.

Tough, I need the reference, and other's need it for understanding of the elements of this debate. What you want, simply doesn't count in this.

Simply explain, from your point of view, why the fraudmeisters leave paragraph (a) out. (but put in paragraphs (b) and (c) of the IRS Code.

Please quote the "paragraph(a)" you are talking about. I presume you are refering to the content of subsection(a) 26 USC Section 6331 Levy and distraint

Seeing as subsection(a) clearly specifies any person liable, that includes you if you have gross income in excess of the amount requiring the filing of a return.

That leads to a Notice of Intent to Levy on nonpayment of taxes owed, section 6331 in subsection(d) paragraph (4) states the information required by law:

26 USC Section 6331. Levy and distraint(d)(4) Information included with notice
The notice required under paragraph (1) shall include a brief statement which sets forth in simple and nontechnical terms -

(A) the provisions of this title relating to levy and sale of property,
(B) the procedures applicable to the levy and sale of property under this title,
(C) the administrative appeals available to the taxpayer with respect to such levy and sale and the procedures relating to such appeals,
(D) the alternatives available to taxpayers which could prevent levy on the property (including installment agreements under section 6159),
(E) the provisions of this title relating to redemption of property and release of liens on property, and
(F) the procedures applicable to the redemption of property and the release of a lien on property under this title.

Now what more is required that should be in a Notice of Levy? What is sent to you in the Notice of Intent to Levy pretty much specifies the whole gammut of what the Levy will be for, that you are suspected of being liable, and should take the recomended steps of due process open to you in subparagraphs (C) & (D) to resolve the raise.

Form 8519 is simply a taxpayers copy of what the send to a financial instution to freeze your assets as part of final Levy after you ignore the Notice of Intent to Levy and it still allows option of appeal and administrative compromise..

In short, if you ignore such notices, you simply set yourself up for default judgement against you same as would happen in a commercial distraint & levy process.

The differences are those laid out by Congress, the real culprit, where the statutes are drafted and enacted. That is where your recourse is when you disagree with law and there is not redress of the gripe to be found in Courts.

Now if you would like to rebut that one simple point please do so by all means.

On review of the statutes and the purpose of Notice of Levy, and In regard to Form 8519 the taxpayers copy of Notice of Levy.

In not properly responding to the prior Notices, a person is in default at the point of receiving the 8159.

At that stage it is no longer an issue as to whether or not you are required to pay the tax. At that point you are liable by consequence of not contesting under the due possess that was afforded you in prior notices. You have waived due possess procedures by not acting.

The only steps left is for you is "appeal" process or "offer in compromise". That's it.

The Subsection(a) of 26 USC 6331 "any person liable" is you by default. You didn't contest it when the opportunity was there for you to do so, only Subsections(b) & (c) apply (a) is no longer an issue, default settled any question that might otherwise have been raised.

That is the bottom line, as to why subsection(a) is not quoted in the taxpayer's copy of the Notice of Levey form 8519. Subsection(a) is for Notice of Intent to Levy. (b) & Apply to actual levy since person liable and amount has been determined.

Addendum:

Just to let you know, your round of question conserning Notice of Intent to Levy & Notice of Intent. Has caused me to spend several hours in intense research on the subject.

You have just added one more refutation to failing arguments and why they don't work.

The bottom line answers and how I get to them goes into the database I have built over the last two years debating this junk with people just like you who figured they had the stumper question.

The TP legal rationalizations fall to pieces everytime, simply because Congress has had 140+ years to refine the Income Tax code to the state it is in.

If a rationale has been tried and even comes close to being an effective in letting a potential taxpayer of the hook, Congress modifies the statutes to remove any weakeness.

My purposes in all this are to find the real answers on how to end the Income/Payroll tax system in this nation. So far the legal wrangling method show's no promise, only an opportunity for the unwary to end up broke and/or provided an all expense paid fed holiday gratis the IRS & DOJ.

United States v. Sloan, 939 F.2d 499 (7th Cir. 1991)
Argued that there is no law imposing a tax on income, that "freeborn" state citizens are exempt from income tax, and that an individual is not a "person" under the tax code.

KANNE, Circuit Judge.

Like moths to a flame, some people find themselves irresistibly drawn to the tax protestor movement's illusory claim that there is no legal requirement to pay federal income tax. And, like the moths, these people sometimes get burned. Lorin G. Sloan believed these claims and because he acted upon them now faces four months in a federal prison; there can be little doubt that he has been burned.

The real tragedy of this case is the unconscionable waste of Mr. Sloan's time, resources, and emotion in continuing to pursue these wholly defective and unsuccessful arguments about the validity of the income tax laws of the United States. Despite our rejection of Mr. Sloan's legal analysis of the tax laws, we are not unmindful of the sincerity of his beliefs. On the other hand, we are less sure of the sincerity of the professional tax protestors who promote their views in literature and meetings to persons like Mr. Sloan, yet are unlikely ever to face the type of penalties incurred by him. It may be that our decision will not alter Mr. Sloan's views regarding the tax laws of this country, for he has stated that if we affirm his conviction without applying the law as he understands it, our decision will be "a sham to which I WILL NOT SUBMIT." It may also be that serving his sentence in prison will not alter Mr. Sloan's view. We hope this pessimistic assessment is incorrect.

We AFFIRM the conviction of Lorin G. Sloan on all counts.

Read:

Patriot Beware!
by Thomas R. Eddlem

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1997/vo13no04/vo13no04_patriot.htm

If you really want to know where my head is at on the income tax law.

Has caused me to spend several hours in intense research on the subject.

The first time I came across this TP'er stuff was on FR and it had to do with whether the tax was constitutional or not. As a CPA, I was interested because I am interested in how the legal concepts evovled and I also was attracted to the idea that on the off chance that it wasn't I wanted to see for myself.

In school we spend most of our time learning to apply the law not learning its history or rules of contruction etc. I must say that your knowledge base on the origins of the income tax far surpass CPA's and Attorneys.

But anyways the threads that were posted back then were posted by relatively newbies on both sides of the arguments. The TP'ers referred abstracts from several cases where the opinion of the judge seemed to be agreeing with the TP'ers. So I printed out the actual cases from my library and read them during some quiet time. What I found was the judges did actually make those quotes however they were repeating the argument being made by the TP'er. As you know it is quite common that the judge's opinion clearly states the contrary opinion before exlaining why it is wrong. What the TP'ers had done was to omit the parts where the judge, after stating the issue, tore the argument apart.

It was then that I learned that either the TP'ers don't have the reading comprehension skills to understand what they are reading or they are deliberating misleading. The ones with the books and tapes are deliberate but the ones like onetomany may just be an unwitting dupe.

It was then that I learned that either the TP'ers don't have the reading comprehension skills to understand what they are reading or they are deliberating misleading.

I suspect most of the folks we run into here on FR, are actually well intentioned but terribly misled. I know from direct personal experience of how one can fall into the TP way of thinking, and by into the arguments put out by the TP gurus.

One is easily led to accept what one is inclined to desire or believe. The stock in trade of every con artist out there is to convince a mark that he can actually have what he believes. Unfortunately, the statements of the gurus are taken a face value and not really checked out, folks are intimidated by the endless array of books in even the poorest equipped legal library, and finding specifics take a specialised knowledge that few ever have opportunity to aquire. As a consequenc a legal quotation is simply accepted without question, afterall it fits common sense, right. Self evident no need to check on things.

It is easier to believe all judges are crooks bought off by the IRS than to do the research to find a truth you really don't want to know. The TP guru is viewed almost as a saint, just trying to help out his fellow Americans. His message is just not credibly contested by anyone in the group, they all want to believe, and there is no counterview to be had. Government, the legal system, anyone associated with law is automatically dismissed and not a credible source, they are all in on the conspiracy to defraud you out of your property.

How did I get out? I have this nasty quirk in my character flaw that causes me to question anyone in the role of a teacher and to attempt to become as knowledgible as they in the material presented. I once tried to draft a researched memorandum of a position against the validity of the income taxe; learned how to do legal research and was spoiled from the day forward. I found out how flimsy the arguments were in reality, and the cites invariable were partial, out-of-context, and represented the reverse of the actual judgements of the court.

Needless to say I got out fast. Unfortunately too many friends didn't and many them have paid some rather severe consequences for their desire to believe and their rejection of anyone who could really help them.

I wasn't aware you could remove a tax debt with a bankruptcy filing? I had the opposite impression from somewhere.

Its a bit tricky but its possible. Its one of the reasons the IRS is willing to even do an offer-in-compromise. For the tax debt to be dishargeable in bankruptcy the debt has to be assessed for at least three years. If the collection proceedings are tolled, like when an offer is made or by prior bankruptcy the the period the IRS has to collect is extended.

The assessment date is not exactly when the return is filed, its when the IRS gets around to recording it.

One of the problems with the TP'er route is that the three years never begins until they file. Anyone who owes and cannot pay is much better off filing as early as possible so that the statute of limitations starts running.

The other little known collection fact is the IRS can only chase you for ten years (unless they get a judgement) which they normally don't do. Again the ten years doesn't start until the tax is assessed.

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