U.S. Chopper Loaded With Troops Shotdown in E. Afghanistan

MSNBC Breaking Live

[RCW2001]

MSNBC reporting unknown casualties, CNN reporting multiple casualties... Developing...

[SamAdams76]

Al-Qaeda has nowhere to go. We've apparently bagged a lot of the mofo's and they're going to fight like junkyard dogs, just like the Japanese Marines at Tarawa. We've sealed the escape routes, and they're all gonna die.

I believe you are right. We appear to have trapped a good portion of the remaining enemy. I wouldn't be surprised if some pretty big names from what is left of the Taliban end up being in this group. And when cornered, any animal will fight to the death. We can expect no less here.

Even with today's battle deaths, it must be noted that American casualties have been astonishingly low for this conflict. Remember how critics said back in October that we would be "bogged" down in a Vietnam-style conflict and that the "brutal Afghan winter" would bring our offensive to a grinding halt. Well spring is in the air and it's time to mop this mess up and move on to the next enemy.

[A. Pole]

Now the cowards on the left have the nerve to crawl out of their holes and demand answers???

Just to make clear. I supported Bush over Gore (although I have a weak spot for Buchanan) but I treat the Constitutional system very seriously. According to the American Constitution it is Congress which is supposed to start, approve, oversee and end wars. United States is not a one party system and the system of check and balanced should not be dismantled. Otherwise the Republic will become and Empire and Presidents will become the new Caesars ("first among the equal at home" but despotic rules abroad).

I do not like Democracts very much, but I want them to stay and play the role of real opposition. I want them to critices and watch the government. Same way as I want Republicans to balance Democrats when the other party is in power. Even if the abolishment of American Constitution could bring the victory over terrorism and liberalism this is not a price worth to pay. But do not fool yourself, after paying this price you will still have the old problems plus a few new ones.

[WIMom]

      

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[Redleg Duke]

It is sickening to see a newbie, with an agenda, and using an honorable name.

[Fury]

According to the American Constitution it is Congress which is supposed to start, approve, oversee and end wars.

Congress does not start wars.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

Democrats Question Expansion of War on Terrorism (Reuters)

Daschle Says Reaction to War Comments 'Hysterical' (Reuters)

Bush Defends Against Daschle Criticism in Iowa (Reuters)

Daschle: U.S. Must Find bin Laden (AP)

Byrd Presses Pentagon on Terror War (AP)

Bush Rejects Democratic Criticism of War, Budget (Reuters)

Officials Describe al-Qaida Cells (AP)

Democrats Criticize Bush Defense Plan (AP)

Extent of Global Terror War Questioned (AP)

Democrats try balancing war support with criticisms of Bush's planned defense buildup (AP)

U.S. Plans to Train Many Countries (AP)

U.S. military aid to Georgia reflects Bush's desire for multiple forms of anti-terror cooperation (AP)

Democrats limber up for a run in 2004 (USA TODAY)

WASHINGTON WATCH -- Winners and Losers in Wartime Washington (Business Week)

 

[cdw19390]

The Ch47 is one of the best helicopters ever built. It is a true, "truck" in the air. They have been flying for 40 years. "you dont "trust" them? Get real, It was shot down. Get it! They have among the best safety records of any helicopter in the world. That is why The US Govenment keeps modifying them rather then replaceing them. THERE IS NOTHING BETTER FOR THR JOB, PERIOD!!

[concerned about politics]

but I treat the Constitutional system very seriously. According to the American Constitution it is Congress which is supposed to start, approve, oversee and end wars.

I was pointing out the hypocracy. It was a "rant."

[cake_crumb]

"Who are you Ms. Cleo. Women fly choppers"

Last I knew, not on combat missions. Even if they are, so what??? Is the loss of the life of a female pilot somehow more significant than the loss of the life of a male pilot?

Both died in the line of duty, fighting for the freedom and security of their fellow Americans. We will wait until the families are notified and the names are released.

Either way, gender is a moot point. God bless and keep our brave soldiers. Be they men OR women.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

12:25 EST Pentagon briefing with SecDef Rumsfele...

[lasereye]

Well up to now this looked like a cake walk..

Previously, we relied soley on airstrikes against large troop concentrations. The reason we're sending ground forces in is that when we relied only on the airstrikes, the Taliban/Al Qaeda would just up and leave. They weren't being captured. Some of the troops we're fighting against now probably were among those who slipped away previously.

[John W]

Then they should have been the loyal opposition in September instead of hugging GW and then backstabbing him in Feb.-March when they've run out of issues.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

(03-04) 06:54 PST (AP) -- The MH-47 Chinook brought down by enemy fire in Afghanistan is a twin-turbine, tandem-rotor, heavy-lift transport helicopter modified to support special operations missions. The helicopter is primarily used to move troops and supplies on special operations missions.

The Army has operated a variety of CH-47 and MH-47 Chinook models since 1962.

Manufacturer: Boeing

Engine: Two Textron Lycoming T55-L712 engines

Performance at 50,000 pounds:

* Sea level cruise: Top speed 184 mph

Crew:

* Cockpit-crew: 3

* Cabin-troop: 33

Weights:

* Maximum gross: 50,000 pounds

* Empty: 23,401 pounds

---

Source: Boeing and U.S. Army

---

On the Net:  Boeing's Chinook: www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/flash.htm

Army: www.army.mil/

[CreekerFreeper]

God Bless Our Troops.

Let us avenge their deaths against the Muslim hoards that are the scourge of the earth.

[ladtx]

We were transporting P2's around; playing the coldwar shell game when we heard a loud bang & lost one of the turbines.

Any aircraft can lose a turbine. The CH-47 can autorotate as well as any, or depending on load, fly single engine. It all depends on pilot proficiency in emergency procedures. Sadly full practice autorotations to the ground were cut due to budget cuts many years ago and pilot proficiency in that manuever has gone away.

[A. Pole]

Congress does not start wars.

Really? So is this quote false (I just got it through google.com):

"Constitution says only Congress can start a war

     Under the U.S. Constitution, as Alexander Hamilton wrote, "it is the peculiar and exclusive duty.of
Congress, when the nation is at peace, to change that state into a state of war."  The president's military
role is "nothing more than . . . first General and Admiral" after Congress has authorized such action.  The
overwhelming evidence of history shows that this was the intention of the Constitution's framers.

     They knew that monarchs were prone to start wars and resolved that in the United States no one man
would have the tyrannical power to cause the death, destruction, and suffering of war.  Before any
military action abroad could begin, whether big or small, the Senate and the House of Representatives
would have to vote to authorize it.. "

[silver fox two]

YO, TRUMAN, WHERE ARE YOU NOW THAT WE NEED YOU?

[Oldeconomybuyer]

[Fury]

Really? So is this quote false (I just got it through google.com):

What constitutes a war? Defending one's self? Whan should a declaration of war be made? When should one not be made?

[astounded]

That's Prairie Fire.