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Rubber Bullets Fired in Salt Lake City Center
Rueters ^ | February 24, 2002 3:57 am EST | staff

Posted on 02/24/2002 12:24:59 AM PST by badfreeper

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To: badfreeper
Why 'compromise'... and allow a thousand people to pee on local resident's doorsteps, cars, etc, just to placate a mob? Since when does mob rule take precedence over locally and legally enacted laws? What 'compromise' is that?

That's like street festivals back in the St. Louis area - every time we had one vandalism shot up and you were kept up all night for days at a time by drunken idiots pounding on your door every few minutes, and the smell of urine the following few days was atrocious, every corner reeked, every alcove, porch, backyard, beer bottles and trash all over. They cancelled a lot of the things because inebriated people were causing so much damage... and no one had even cut off their taps, it was just normal behavior- regular evening boozers just do it on a smaller scale than festival drunks and are less dangerous in that regular weekday boozers don't form mobs. There is room for leeway with individuals, but never room for leeway with crowds.

Rubber bullets are good for something.

21 posted on 02/24/2002 1:31:58 AM PST by piasa
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To: badfreeper
Lester Maddox did that in Georgia years ago.
22 posted on 02/24/2002 1:33:19 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: mamelukesabre
"Are you trying to tell me it is possible to taste the difference between a 4% and a 3.2% beer?"

I probably wouldn't, since I don't drink either. When in the US, I generally drink Heineken (5%). But if you made me switch to 3.2, I'd probably just go with water (same difference).

23 posted on 02/24/2002 1:37:27 AM PST by badfreeper
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To: sheik yerbouty
that is the best name i've seen in a really long time.
24 posted on 02/24/2002 1:38:23 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: badfreeper
To be honest, from what I know of Utah and Salt Lake City, the people are good and decent, keep a clean place and have strong religious roots. If "guests" came into my home and started wrecking the place, I wouldn't have used rubber bullets.

When you are a guest in someone's home, you abide by those rules. If anyone here believes differently about this in the above situation, then I don't want to see you complaining on any of those illegal alien/immigrant threads. It's the same principle.

I applause the people of Utah and SLC for their restraint. Just because the rest of the world and some areas of the nation have become used to the antics of ravaging animals doesn't mean good people have to accept it.

You better believe if such animals started rioting in my town I'd be out there with the militia picking off looters and rioters to protect my family, friends and loved ones.

Message to all liberal lurkers: Try this in my town and you will be "dissappointed" with our response.

25 posted on 02/24/2002 2:14:59 AM PST by Caipirabob
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: badfreeper
Sounds like because of their limited experience with alcohol, Salt Lake violated Rule #1 of public drink festivals.

Rule #1: No Glass Bottles (Do not hand weapons to drunks)

27 posted on 02/24/2002 2:31:55 AM PST by metesky
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To: badfreeper
With half the U.S. military there it is a pretty stupid place to riot... They mean business there…
28 posted on 02/24/2002 2:40:32 AM PST by DB
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To: badfreeper
Seems to me there was no problem until the taps stopped. Who ever heard of last call at midnight on a Saturday night?

Shutting down the bar at midnight isn't that uncommon. I lived in in a town in the mid-west that did that. One miniute after midnight Saturday = SUNDAY. I don't know about other areas but around here areas with heavy Christian Reformed populations, do this.

The funny part though is that while they would vote to block the sale of liquor on Sundays, and even tried to block the sale of liquor by the glass, they were also well known to be closet drinkers themselves! Funny probably isn't the right word to use, a better word starts with an 'H'.

29 posted on 02/24/2002 2:47:15 AM PST by ET(end tyranny)
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To: badfreeper
Oh my heck!!!
30 posted on 02/24/2002 2:59:04 AM PST by snopercod
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To: badfreeper
From the same story:

Kyle Blackman, 18, said: "A fight broke out between two kids over a beer. The cops came in to stop the fight. We turned and tried to go but someone threw a beer at the cops and they opened up on us.

If true, that one thrown beer resulted in a wanton police response of firing rubber bullets indiscriminately into a crowd, then I guess we now qualify as a banana republic.

31 posted on 02/24/2002 3:46:10 AM PST by Tuco-bad
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Cvengr
Mormonism is a religion of peace.
33 posted on 02/24/2002 3:57:02 AM PST by Rustynailww
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To: all
This story is the perfect ending to the farce we call the modern Olympics. Hopefully the IOC will be so turned off by this years "show" that they will ban the U.S. from hosting the da## thing.

Why in the world do cities line up for the honor of being in hock for the next 20 years?

Place the Olympic summer games in Greece were it belongs, permenately! (do the same thing with the winter games, just put them in Switzerland).
Build an Olympic complex that will be used for the next 100 years.
Ban all events that cannot be timed or measured, AND
be attributed to the skills of a warrior.

34 posted on 02/24/2002 4:04:25 AM PST by M.K. Borders
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To: badfreeper
This sounds to me like there was a little overreaction by the police too. The rioting didn't start until the honcho authoritative cops started firing their rubber bullets.
35 posted on 02/24/2002 4:06:32 AM PST by chainsaw
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To: badfreeper
Why did people riot over a midnight last call? Is that responsible behavior by people merely enjoying themselves?
36 posted on 02/24/2002 4:06:55 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: M.K. Borders
My feeling as well! Not to mention the bowing, scraping, gifting, and down right corruption of getting to be "the" city over the five other ones who weren't as "good" to the selection committee.
37 posted on 02/24/2002 4:29:19 AM PST by wita
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To: chainsaw
According to the paper, they started throwing bottles at the police when they went in to arrest some people fighting.
38 posted on 02/24/2002 4:29:30 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: badfreeper
Last call in Utah? You'd have a hard time finding first call.
39 posted on 02/24/2002 4:33:56 AM PST by glockmeister40
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To: badfreeper; mamelukesabre; M.K. Borders
2002 WINTER OLYMPICS
Drinking game: Getting served

By George Diaz | Sentinel Staff Writer

SALT LAKE CITY -- Visitors to the Winter Olympics are discovering some sobering news: Utah's liquor laws are so convoluted that in some establishments, a parched patron has to fill out a security form before getting a taste of anything stronger than hot cocoa. Etched in the clean-living doctrine of a region with a strong Mormon influence, Salt Lake City is trying to downplay its teetotaling image and shake perceptions that this is an Olympics with no party favors.

"It's crazy -- their attitude of alcohol," said Kristian Peyrin, who owns a French restaurant in downtown Salt Lake City. "They think all alcoholics started by drinking one beer at first or one glass of wine. That's like saying if you smoke a doobie, you might end up shooting heroin. To drink socially is not being an alcoholic.

"They are doing more harm to themselves by promoting their way of thinking."

Adult liquid beverages have been readily available, but one first must understand a convoluted mix of rules and regulations.Here's a quick primer on the quirks of alcohol consumption:

Full liquor service (including mixed drinks, beer and wine by the glass or bottle) is available in licensed restaurants, airport lounges and private clubs. Fees for the clubs range from $5 for temporary two-week membership to $12 to $100 for an annual membership. One recent trip to a restaurant serving liquor required a two-step security/access check that included filling out a form.

Fortunately, most locals have been kind enough to "sponsor" a stranger who steps into a bar if the timing is right. That lets visitors bypass having to get club memberships. "Just wink at a pretty girl at the bar, and she will sponsor you for free," said Greg Schirf, owner of Wasatch Brewery in Park City.

Liquor, wine and heavy beer (over 3.2 percent alcohol; standard beer is 5 percent) is available in State Liquor Stores and Package Agencies, which are closed on Sundays. Patrons must be dining in the restaurant in order to be served alcohol.

It is illegal to buy a double liquor drink, but you can order a "sidecar" (a one-ounce shot of the same libation). The bartender will place the shot glass beside your drink, although he or she is not allowed to pour it into your glass.

If you can get a drink, you have to get it early. Bars close at 1 a.m.

Olympic guests can drink hot-buttered rum at venues, but Utah's Alcoholic Beverage Control Department has banned the sale of Irish coffee and hot chocolate with schnapps.

Until recently, a waiter was not allowed to offer the wine list to diners because that was thought to encourage drinking, but the waiter could give it to them if the patrons ask for it directly.

The perplexing ins and outs is enough to drive one to . . . well . . . you know.

"You can get a drink here just like anywhere else," said John Saltas, publisher of the Salt Lake City Weekly. "The trouble is, the social element is more difficult here because of the stupid private clubs stigma. They make no sense whatsoever, but bureaucratically and institutionally, they make sense to the people who control Utah, because they have a sense they are controlling the consumption of alcohol. They're really not."

Reflecting the true Olympic spirit of thorough preparation, some of the foreign visitors and local entrepreneurs have taken cautionary notes and extreme measures.

Every member of the Russian delegation brought two jars of caviar and two bottles of vodka. "Everyone knows Utah is a Mormon state where alcohol is tough to get," Viktor Mamatov, Russia's Olympic Chief de Mission, said recently.

Germany, Italy, Austria, Slovakia and Switzerland, among other countries, have imported their own beer, wine and liquor (packing a stronger alcoholic kick).

Dead Goat Saloon owner Daniel Darger has recruited five other bar owners to lock arms in the war on "liquor-law lunacy" by setting up a Web site. They offer a $15 single membership card that allows customers access into the six bars during the Winter Games.

"It's like the Boston Tea Party," Darger said recently.

The Olympics, perhaps more than any other major sporting event, has a long history of celebratory toasts as the world comes together to party and play for two weeks. There remains the not-so-stereotypical image of foreign correspondents and domestic scribes who enjoy the company of Mr. Johnny Walker or Mr. Chivas after filing their last dispatch of the day's events.

Salt Lake officials, fearful of media backlash on this issue since the Games were awarded to Utah in 1995, have continued a public-relations blitz to show the world that they, too, love the nightlife and got to boogie.

Mayor Rocky Anderson took visiting Olympic journalists on a "pub crawl" in October, finishing their excursion at 3 a.m. "I'm still recovering," Anderson said. Several years earlier, another group of Olympic journalists in town had beers placed on their beds as part of a welcoming basket of goodies.

"The whole perception about our alcohol laws is grossly exaggerated," Anderson said, "but it's understandable, given the very few odd aspects of our liquor laws." >[? Despite lobbying from Anderson (a liberal Democrat and non-Mormon) and other officials to loosen the leash on alcohol during the Games, Utah's Beverage Control officials remain unwavering. Compliance officers are patrolling Salt Lake bars looking for infractions.

Beverage control officials have issued a special 72-hour permit for selling drinks in hospitality areas or restaurants that have been leased to various international groups.

Under that revolving three-day window, Peyrin has turned over his restaurant to the Switzerland Olympic Organization during the 17-day run. His liquor license will not be affected, because "it's too dangerous," pointing to the legal issues of an under-age Olympian who might take a sip of champagne or wine.

"If you can go fight for your country and get killed, you should be able to drink a glass of wine or beer before you get killed," said Peyrin, originally from France. "As far as American athletes are concerned, I can't really judge because it's the law of the land, but as far as European athletes, those are definitely not our laws.

"If you are the best at what you do, not being able to pop open a bottle of champagne is ridiculous. It doesn't make a guy a drunk or anything. It's a customary thing in the world, but apparently Utah is not aware of this. They live on another planet."

The line between church and state in Utah remains a contentious issue in a state of 2.1 million where 70 percent of the population are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons).

"We're not opposed to responsible consumption of alcohol by informed adults," church spokesman Michael Purdy said. "The church is concerned about availability to minors and health and social consequences of alcohol consumption."

The teetotaling stigma allows for those with a more liberal slant to tweak the church and its infamous history. In November, Schirf came up with a provocative name for one of the beers offered at his brew pub.

"Polygamy Porter," said the voiceover in the radio ad, asking, "Why have just one?"

A billboard with a scantily clad man surrounded by women alongside the message "Take One Home For the Wives" was banned by the beverage control department, a group of five Mormon commissioners.

The controversy has made Polygamy Porter and its accompanying souvenir merchandise (T-shirts and such) popular throughout the world..

"I kind of owe 'em a thank you, don't I?" said Schirf, who maintains that the drinking restrictions are "more popular myth than substance. If people go home without a hangover, certainly it will be of their own choosing."

Frustrated souls who still can't drown their sorrows with a hot toddy during the Olympics might consider an alternative form of feel-good therapy: Go to a gift shop and look for a novelty shot glass.

One favorite: "Eat, Drink and Be Merry . . . For Tomorrow You May Be In Utah."

George Diaz can be reached at gdiaz@orlandosentinel.com.

Link to article HERE

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40 posted on 02/24/2002 4:36:00 AM PST by ppaul
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