A Question for Creationists

February 5th, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

A Question for Creationists

Genesis 1:

1   In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2   And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4   And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5   And God called the light Day , and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6   And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7   And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
8   And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9   And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
10   And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.
11   And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12   And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
13   And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14   And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15   And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16   And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day , and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.
17   And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18   And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.
19   And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20   And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21   And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
22   And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23   And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24   And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25   And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

26   And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27    So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28    And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29    And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30    And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31    And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So there we have it, right? God created the heavens and the Earth and every living thing, including man, in six days. Six, 24-hour days.

And then…

Genesis 2:

1   Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2   And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3   And God blessed the seventh day , and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Here at the begininning of Genesis 2, we see the seventh day. Now we have seven twenty-four hour days.

So far, so good?

And then the next few lines of Genesis 2…

4   These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5   And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.
6   But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

These verses are a recapitulation of the Genesis 1 account of creation, when God created the heavens and the earth. They further explain the antediluvian conditions on that day, before there was ever rain, when a mist would rise up from the ground and…

Wait.

The heavens were created on the second day, but there was no ground until God separated the waters from the earth on the third day of Creation. Look again at Genesis 1 : 6-10.

Genesis 1:

6   And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7   And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
8   And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9   And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
9   And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
10   And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

How can the heavens be created on the same day there was a mist rising from the ground in Genesis 2, when these things occurred on different days in Genesis 1?

The word "day" in Genesis 1 and 2 is translated from the Hebrew "yom." It's the same word in all of the places I've highlighted in red. In fact, about 99% of the time the word "day" is found in the Old Testament, the original Hebrew is "yom."

If the word "day" in the Genesis 1 is a normal 24-hour day, rather than an allegorical phrasing for a much longer period of time (as seen elsewhere in the Bible, Ps. 90:4 and 2 Peter 3: 8 being good examples), and the word "day" in Genesis 2:4 is also a 24 hour day, we appear to have a contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. The only way Genesis 2:4 can be reconciled is if "day" refers to a period of longer than 24 hours.

But if the word "day" is figurative in Genesis 2:4, then why not in Genesis 1?

Why does the word "day" in Genesis 1 have to mean a literal 24-hour period?

[Sabertooth]

Companion thread:

A Question for Evolutionists

[Sabertooth]

(((ping))))

[CheneyChick]

It all depends on your definition of "day".

Beautiful graphics, Saberkitty! Nice work!

[monkeyshine]

I've got my Rashi's commentary on the Pentateuch right here... but I really am having a hard time understanding your questions. What is it you want to know? I will quote to you verbatim what it says in Rashi's commentary.

[Sabertooth]

Thanks Betty.

[Buckeroo]

Keep in mind that within Genesis there is no exclaimation about the direction of Islam or Christianity or Jewish faith; besides other religious faith. Nope, nothing ........... it is all in the dark.

[RaceBannon]

How can the heavens be created on the same day there was a mist rising from the ground in Genesis 2, when these things occurred on different days in Genesis 1?

You are misreading the verse. In Genesis 2, it is spoken of as being a general time, as in 'the general period of time when', not as if it was the same day.

[jbstrick]

Interesting post. I have often pondered that myself. I am by education a scientist. I do believe in the theory of evolution. HOWEVER, I do not believe man evolved directly from apes. There is simply no direct evidence.

[CheneyChick]

2 Peter 3:8

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

[jbstrick]

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

Exactly!! I remember that phrase from Sunday school.

[RaceBannon]

Science, Scripture, and the Saviour.

The 6 days of creation: Were they days or ages?

The Gap Theory

[Russell Scott]

God transcends time, space, and matter. Since God can move back and forth in time, time becomes very hard to quantify. The best thing to do is accept Christ so you are assured of eternal salvation. Then when you enter eternal paradise, you will have the mind of God, and know and understand the answer to all your questions.

[RaceBannon]

see post 11. The days of Creation were not 1000 years. Look back at the top of the screen, and notice the order of events of creation. Imagine a world with plants for 1000 years with no sun!

[monkeyshine]

Not according to Rashi. Here is what Rashi says about Gen 4:

This teaches you that all of them were created on the first day.

There is more here, but it is somewhat esoteric. Because if you read this verse in the Hebrew script, the spelling of the word "they were created" is altered slightly to include a small Hey, which of course is used twice in the Hebrew name for God.

He goes on to explain that this infers that God created two worlds, and that this world was created with the letter Hey. "An intimation that the wicked will descend o the nether world, to see the pit like the letter Hey, which is closed from all sides and is open at the bottom [for the wicked] to descend through there.

[Sabertooth]

You are misreading the verse. In Genesis 2, it is spoken of as being a general time, as in 'the general period of time when', not as if it was the same day.

Seems to me that's exactly how I read the verse. Hence my question...

Why is "day" not a twenty-four hour period in Genesis 2:4, yet it must be in Genesis 1?

[monkeyshine]

I believe the biblical theory is that the plants existed beneath the surface of the earth, not to sprout until the sun and the rain could make them viable -- like a seed can survive under the ground without water or sun... water will make it begin to sprout even without sunlight, and the sunlight will make it rise from the earth.

[RaceBannon]

God transcends time, space, and matter. Since God can move back and forth in time, time becomes very hard to quantify. The best thing to do is accept Christ so you are assured of eternal salvation. Then when you enter eternal paradise, you will have the mind of God, and know and understand the answer to all your questions.

What is your basis for saying that God goes back and forth in time?
If God uses time references to teach us things, like why we have a week, why we have a year, and why the Sabbath day was to be a certain day, and yet to also consider that time is NOT important at all, why does God use the time references to us? Isn't it because the time references were accurate for a reason? Because they genuinely represented the time God took to accomplish what He said He accomplished in that time period? If you throw out the time references, you have no reason to not throw out anything else, for the same logic can apply. Either it means what it says, especially when it is specific, or it does not mean anything it says.

[Cowgirl]

Would you call God a liar? He said he made it in a 24 hour period and His Word is true. Any misunderstanding is on our part, not His.

[CheneyChick]

I've always taken it as a figure of speech, RB. Not a literal thousand years... God does not view time as humans do, but stands above it with the view of eternity. Time is relative.

[RaceBannon]

You would be wrong, then, because the Bible says that seed existed with Grass and plants.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.