Top-Selling Bible to Be Issued in Gender-Neutral Version

Associated Press ^ | Monday, January 28, 2002 | Associated Press

[FourtySeven]

The International Bible Society said Monday that America's best-selling modern Bible is about to get an update using gender-neutral wording, despite past criticism of that idea from conservative Christians.

The revision will be called "Today's New International Version," or TNIV. The original "New International Version," which has sold more than 150 million copies worldwide since 1978, will remain on the market.

[Jean Chauvin]

"You haven't seen one person claim that.

One

"To: FourtySeven

"Our Parent, Who are in heaven..."

21 posted on 1/28/02 7:23 AM Pacific by Judith Anne [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]"

Two

"To: FourtySeven

I suspect they just avoid pronouns, and use "God" in places where the original had a pronoun refering to Him...

101 posted on 1/28/02 8:29 AM Pacific by The_Reader_David [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse ] "

Three

"To: FourtySeven

(S)He, Hym, Hys, Lord(Lady), or some such other nonsense.

The people who are the most annoyed with the old way are most likely those who don't believe anyway.

Hope this new version tanks

126 posted on 1/28/02 10:59 AM Pacific by hattend [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]"

I'll stop there.

Jean

[Gil4]

it was translated from a very late and not particularly good Greek version

There is no disagreement that it was translated from more recent manuscripts. The disagreement is over which manusripts are of better quality, and even the critical texts. Older is not necessarily better.

[RobRoy]

Show me ten people who think the KJV is the only accurate version of the bible, and I'll show you at least nine mormons. They have to preserve the KJV as the most accurate version because it keeps the 18th century BOM, which was written in 16th century english (like the KJV) from appearing silly. It keeps it's credibility better.

BTW, I would love to see a "modern english paraphrased" version of the BOM. That would be an interesting read, for interesting reasons.

[Jean Chauvin]

From the TNIV: (actual NT hard copy)

"But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." 1 Corinthians 11:3

"A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man" 1 Corinthians 11:7-9

Hardly pro-feminist.

Jean

[Gil4]

oops on my the last post (202) - I was going to go one way, then changed my mind and I just didn't delete far enough back. I'm up too late - gotta go to bed. (Belgium)

[CyberCowboy777]

I am glad to see your intent is revealed by your approach.

I know the original words...we are speaking of translations. The Hebrew and Greek were translated into English. Hell is an English word that embodies word and context for better translation. I never said Gehanna and Hades were the same. Read it carefully. If are trying to differentiate between the Gehenna and Hell. Yes, Gehenna is a place, but the place itself it often used as a descriptor of Hell. (pretty accurate, eternal fires and all) Gehenna, in most of its occurrences in the Greek New Testament, designates the place of the lost (Matt. 23:33). The fearful nature of their condition there is described in various figurative expressions (Matt. 8:12; 13:42; 22:13; 25:30; Luke 16:24, etc.).

Word History: Hell comes to us directly from Old English hel. Because the Roman Church prevailed in England from an early date, the Roman that is, Mediterranean belief that hell was hot prevailed there too; in Old English hel is a black and fiery place of eternal torment for the damned. But because the Vikings were converted to Christianity centuries after the Anglo-Saxons, the Old Norse hel, from the same source as Old English hel, retained its earlier pagan senses as both a place and a person. As a place, hel is the abode of oathbreakers, other evil persons, and those unlucky enough not to have died in battle. It contrasts sharply with Valhalla, the hall of slain heroes. Unlike the Mediterranean hell, the Old Norse hel is very cold. Hel is also the name of the goddess or giantess who presides in hel, the half blue-black, half white daughter of Loki and the giantess Angrbotha. The Indo-European root behind these Germanic words is *kel-, “to cover, conceal” (so hell is the “concealed place”); it also gives us hall, hole, hollow, and helmet.

Sheol is better translated into "Grave" many times..as all dead go to Sheol. Unless in context it may describes a place of tormented spirits, then to English as Hell. Here we run into the issue of using Sheol as an English word as most do not know the difference as pertaining to context. Hell and Grave better describe the two usages of Sheol. Sheol, occurring in the Old Testament sixty-five times. This word Sheol is derived from a root-word meaning "to ask," "demand;" hence insatiableness (Prov. 30:15, 16). It is rendered "grave" thirty-one times (Gen. 37:35; 42:38; 44:29, 31; 1 Sam. 2:6, etc.). The Revisers have retained this rendering in the historical books with the original word in the margin, while in the poetical books they have reversed this rule. In thirty-one cases in the Authorized Version this word is rendered "hell," the place of disembodied spirits. The inhabitants of Sheol are "the congregation of the dead" (Prov. 21:16). It is (a) the abode of the wicked (Num. 16:33; Job 24:19; Ps. 9:17; 31:17, etc.); (b) of the good (Ps. 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; 86:13, etc.). Sheol is described as deep (Job 11:8), dark (10:21, 22), with bars (17:16). The dead "go down" to it (Num. 16:30, 33; Ezek. 31:15, 16, 17).

Hades that which is out of sight, a Greek word used to denote the state or place of the dead. All the dead alike go into this place. To be buried, to go down to the grave, to descend into Hades, are equivalent expressions. In the LXX. this word is the usual rendering of the Hebrew Sheol, the common receptacle of the departed (Gen. 42:38; Ps. 139:8; Hos. 13:14; Isa. 14:9). This term is of comparatively rare occurrence in the Greek New Testament. Our Lord speaks of Capernaum as being "brought down to hell" (hades), i.e., simply to the lowest debasement, (Matt. 11:23). It is contemplated as a kind of kingdom which could never overturn the foundation of Christ's kingdom (16:18), i.e., Christ's church can never die. In Luke 16:23 it is most distinctly associated with the doom and misery of the lost. In Acts 2:27-31 Peter quotes the LXX. version of Ps. 16:8-11, plainly for the purpose of proving our Lord's resurrection from the dead. David was left in the place of the dead, and his body saw corruption. Not so with Christ. According to ancient prophecy (Ps. 30:3) he was recalled to life. Peter does not state that David is in Hell, but that his body is in the Grave. So Translating Hades to hell is not always accurate in English.

Also Hell provides distinction from the word hades as it used at the time

Ha·des (h d z)
n.
Greek Mythology.
The god of the netherworld and dispenser of earthly riches.

[Kay]

Thank you, Jean, for your postings and the references. I suspected that it would be an accurate version.

[CyberCowboy777]

The point is that it is better to use the English Hell and Grave than the Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades; as these can mean both Grave and Hell as we understand them. Since we do not read the ENTIRE text in Hebrew or Greek disseminating the intent can be difficult. Instead we separate the meanings of the two and use English Words (it is an English translation).

That is the extent of my ignorance that is breathtaking!

[dansangel]

PING for more info.....

[Mercat]

Okay with me.

[CyberCowboy777]

You had seem to say that any old bible will do as long as you are reading it. IMHO, That cannot be farther from the truth. It must be as accurate a copy as you can find and it must be Studied not read.

There is a big difference in one version translating that God Himself made all things in the beginning and one version translating that all things were made though Him.

So, okay as in - Yes it must be an accurate Bible and it must be studied - or - Yes, you read what you like. All roads lead to heaven, you can read a Bible translated by mother goose.

[DallasMike]

Well-said. Thank you very much.

[RnMomof7]

A baptist bump

[DallasMike]

First of all, Texe Marrs is not, um, shall we say, very credible. I can go into more detail if you wish.

I looked at the links and found them most unimpressive. For example, there's one that intimates that the translators were trying to demean Jesus by translating some references to him as "teacher." The fact is that he was often called "rabbi," which means teacher. Pull out your old inerrant King James and check out John 3:2.

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Next, break out your concordance. If you don't have one you can use the Blue-Letter Bible to do your searches in the King James Bible. You will find that the word "didaskalos" is translated as the word "teacher" in the above verse and, indeed, is considered the best translation (check one of the several Greek dictionaries available on the web). It appears 57 times in the Bible -- mostly when referring to Jesus. The word "master" would have been an appropriate translation 400+ years ago, but "teacher" is the modern word whose usage most approaches the meaning of "didaskalos."

Stay away from Texe Marrs. Not everything he says is bad, but he is well-known for making sweeping, conspiratorial claims with nothing to back him up. In the case of that particular web page, he definitely has egg on his face.

[GWfan]

I think that there are many ways to serve the Lord. Being a missionary is only one way.

Remember that the body is made up of many parts, and with out one of those parts it is not a whole body.