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Flame away, little men.
1 posted on 01/27/2002 8:48:54 AM PST by moodyskeptic
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To: moodyskeptic
Don't agree on a coupla points...

We are a nation of laws. Even if he was assaulted Junta's act of self-defense ended once he had the smaller man on the ground and under physical control. Once he continued throwing punches to the head he was breaking the law. The manager of the rink testified very convincingly that, in spite of her screams for him to stop, Junta kept pounding Costin, bouncing his head off the ice. That's manslaughter.

How could you possibly think that Costin deserved to die? Does that mean that it's ok in your world to kill anyone who acts like an aggressive dope?

If "wise" fathers tell their kids not to "pick" fights that they can't win, instead of don't "pick" fights period, does that mean that "wise" fathers tell their kids it's ok to "pick" a fight as long as you know how it will turn out? My old man, a bantam-weight, (and a former FBI SA who knew how to fight) taught me (6'1'' - 205) not to pick fights at all. You fight when forced to. I've had my share but never threw the first punch and never threw a punch after things were under control.

Both of these guys were out of control. Both were wrong. But, in no way did Consit have it (death) coming to him.

47 posted on 01/27/2002 9:31:03 AM PST by wtc911
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To: moodyskeptic
Wise fathers tell their boys:

I was also told "discretion is the better part of valor." Junta could have walked away after getting his son. He didn't have to carry on the fight.

So he was humiliated by a sucker punch and walking away from it. How humiliated is he going to be for the next six to ten years? What kind of humiliation will his son and family go through? But hey, he really showed Costin who was the boss.

52 posted on 01/27/2002 9:36:36 AM PST by Tennessee_Bob
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To: moodyskeptic
Big guy bump!

Thank goodness I came up when a big guy could defend himself against a little runt with a Napoleon complex, although you're right, more restraint was always expected of the larger man (itself a double standard). If a little punk punched you, then he was fair game.

No more. Junta proved for all to see, big men are expected to willingly play the role of punching bags.

This verdict was a great injustice and the whole GD society is being thoroughly feminized. Makes me sick.

59 posted on 01/27/2002 9:45:24 AM PST by LibWhacker
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To: moodyskeptic
Wait, is it true that his kid was still in there and he went back to get him? That changes a lot, if so...
60 posted on 01/27/2002 9:49:24 AM PST by zeromus
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To: moodyskeptic
What about his previous arrests for domestic violence against his wife , and an attack on a police officer? This doesn't sound like a "gentle giant" to me, but a guy with a history of using violence when he felt he was entitled to. I agree with the poster who said both men sounded like scumbags not worth losing sleep over.
62 posted on 01/27/2002 9:54:02 AM PST by kaylar
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To: moodyskeptic
6'6" - 225 pounds here. You are entitled to your opinion, but if I were you I wouldn't put it into practice if ever in the same type situation. The law is pretty clear that having someone under physical control and continuing to hit them is not self defense. I agree with it.
65 posted on 01/27/2002 9:58:26 AM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: moodyskeptic
Actually, I agree with you. What is being extinguished here are the concepts that
(A) A man is responsible for the results of his own actions and
(B)A man has a right to self-defense.

People are failing to distinguish between the two fighters in the same way they can't distinguish between the actions of the Palis and Israelis.

BTW, I heard the poor "victim" was a wife beater.

66 posted on 01/27/2002 9:58:40 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: moodyskeptic
No flame from here.

I am disturbed by the fact that Costin had a serious record for violent crime. 30 arrests, 7 terms in prison or jail for up to 15 months, including felony assault on a police officer. Junta had no such history.

In the real world, stupidity is a capital crime. Maybe Costin just ran out of luck.

70 posted on 01/27/2002 10:04:29 AM PST by Navy Patriot
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To: moodyskeptic
LYNN, Massachusetts (AP) -- The only solace Gus Costin finds sometimes is in the strand of bedside rosary beads given to him by his grandmother. He pulls the beads from their pouch almost every night and asks why his life turned out like it did.

Costin asks about that night 27 years ago when he says he accidentally killed his son during a fight. He ponders the loss of his second son, who was fatally beaten by a man after their sons' hockey practice a year and a half ago.

"What are the odds of a father having two sons dying the way my two sons died?" Costin asked. "About a billion to one."

"Why (God) did this, I'll know someday," he added.

Costin is full of conflicting emotions as he awaits the sentencing next week of Thomas Junta, who was convicted of killing son Michael Costin in the hockey fight. That's because Costin himself was convicted of manslaughter in the beating of his other son, Dennis.

Costin sees Junta's sentencing January 25 as a chance to put one chapter behind him.

Costin said Junta must go to jail for what he did, but he's not calling for a long sentence. During the trial, he approached Junta and said he forgave him. Junta could get anywhere from probation to 20 years.

"I'm leaving it up to the judge," Costin said. "Whatever comes down, let's accept it."

Today, Costin, 68, lives alone in an apartment near downtown Lynn, the Boston-area suburb where he was born.

The bald and solidly built man talks expansively and tends to ramble, his throat narrowing and eyes filling with tears when the subject turns to his sons, his estranged wife and daughter, the grandchildren he can no longer see, and how things got to be the way they are.

The former Raytheon technician married his wife, Joan, in 1957 and their two boys were born soon after.

Both sons developed drinking problems. The deadly confrontation between Costin and his son Dennis started when the son came home drunk, the father said.

Costin said he grabbed a hunting knife from under his son's pillow during the fight. He said the younger Costin rushed him in their kitchen, running into the knife. The knife pierced Dennis through the heart.

After Gus Costin's 1976 conviction, he said, he was sentenced to six months in a work release program. He thought his family understood the death was an accident, but his marriage fell apart, and his relationship with Michael was severely strained.

Costin's former wife, Joan, declined comment. His daughter, Mary Barbuzzi, would not discuss specifics about the family, except to say, "The information he gives you is inaccurate. He isn't considered a part of this family and hasn't been for a while."

Michael Costin grew up to have numerous run-ins with the law, costing him custody of his four children for several years. He had seven prison stints between 1983 and 1995 on charges of breaking and entering, drunken driving and assaulting a police officer. He also spent time in psychiatric hospitals.

But his family said he was a good father and had been sober when he was killed by Junta.

Gus Costin, who for a time had custody of Michael's sons, Brendan and Michael, agreed that his son was turning his life around, but added he wasn't convinced he was ready to be a father.

His fight for custody of the boys further alienated Michael. He said he didn't even find out Michael had been hurt in the fight with Junta until after he died.

Now, a restraining order taken against him for allegedly threatening his former wife -- which Costin denies -- means he can't see the grandchildren.

Costin says the separation from the children is devastating. His refrigerator is covered with school papers from the boys. His walls are plastered with their pictures. He keeps their room as a sort of shrine, their posters and sports trophies all in place.

Costin said he sees the grandsons as God's replacements for the sons he lost, and said he'll keep fighting to see them "until they throw dirt on me." Several times in a recent interview, he mistakenly used his grandson's name, Brendan, when talking about his son Dennis.

Costin said he's saddened that he never got the chance to make peace with Michael. But he hopes death has resolved any doubts Michael had about Dennis' killing.

"Michael is with Dennis now. Michael knows now that I never meant any harm," Costin said. "If he ever had any doubts, now he knows the truth. ...In my heart, I'm sure he knew I loved him."

73 posted on 01/27/2002 10:12:39 AM PST by Private Pyle
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To: moodyskeptic
I'm 6'3" and 240#. The only fight I ever lost was to a 5'8" 140# former Marine, but he didn't win for free. He took twenty+ stitches and several broken and cracked ribs and he's still my friend today.
76 posted on 01/27/2002 10:19:08 AM PST by eloy
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To: moodyskeptic
moody...

Barring you having some personal interest, you and I were raised in two totally different cultures.

82 posted on 01/27/2002 10:48:44 AM PST by cynicom
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To: moodyskeptic
Guess Junta's dad didn't give him that advise or at least Junta didn't listen because he beat up his wife at lest once that we know of.

Wise fathers tell their boys: don't smart off to cops, don't hit women,

85 posted on 01/27/2002 11:04:36 AM PST by DManA
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To: moodyskeptic
I didnt see the trial but and I have a few questions.My problem comes from the big guy coming back other than that I may could agree.I find a big problem with the judge getting away from the normal sentence,that bugs me worse than all I know about this.I understand the judge based some of this on an incident in the big mans past that happened more than 10 years ago but yet he did not take into account the past of the smaller guy. This is a case of an example being made of the big guy by a sitting judge(Attorney). Wonder if Michaek Skakel wii get the same justice the big guy got and where was the Judge when Edward Kennedy murdered Mary Jo. Same system different defendants.
91 posted on 01/27/2002 11:19:52 AM PST by gunnedah
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To: moodyskeptic
Sure, why not..I agree with you: kill anytime or anyone you choose..you be the judge and executioner..as long as you think they have it coming, that's all that counts!! Take their life, take them away from their kids...no reason is too big or too small..
92 posted on 01/27/2002 11:20:27 AM PST by Uglywhiteguy
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To: moodyskeptic
And I've spent an adulthood targeted by stupid little hot headed roosters who like to pick fights they can't win.

Maybe you're hanging out with the wrong people. I'm a big guy, and I never get in fights with anyone of any size.

94 posted on 01/27/2002 11:25:19 AM PST by I am out of control
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To: moodyskeptic
Well said. The jury and publicity-minded prosecutor in pussy New England just cannot stand a little violence and have to blame SOMEBODY . . . ANYBODY. Even if the real culprit is beyond their reach by being dead.
96 posted on 01/27/2002 11:30:02 AM PST by jammer
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To: moodyskeptic
No flames from me. You hit the nail on the head. Costin had a Napolean complex. I'm sure that served him well most of his life, but on this occasion it got him killed.

Additionaly, let's not make Junta out to be a knight in shining armor. After all the guy was arrested twice: once for beating his ex-wife and the other time for assaulting a police officer. They were both sleezebags.

107 posted on 01/27/2002 11:54:46 AM PST by oldvike
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To: moodyskeptic
Junta made four major mistakes that cost another man his life, and him his freedom. Here they are.

1. He had safely left the building and was outside under no threat of harm. He went back in seeking solely to fight again.
2. He was confronted by the rink manager, a woman. She tried to stop him and was bruised as a result of him knocking her aside.
3. He approached the victim swiftly with obvious intent to fight. This may be the reason the victim struck out first.
4. According to the coroner, Junta beat the man so badly that his head was in danger of being detached from the spinal cord. The coroner was also able to account for fifteen blows to the victim's head. The victim had a 7 inch hematoma on the side of his head. His artery was severed. His vertabra had been damaged. His head was fractured in the back. His brain was so badly swolen that it would likely have caused death on it's own.

These are not the acts of a man simply defending himself. Once he reentered the building and pushed the rink manager aside, it was all over. Anything he did from then on out was not self-defense.

He had walked away. He was outside. At that point he was safe and in the right. Too bad for everyone he didn't stay out there.

112 posted on 01/27/2002 12:16:59 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: moodyskeptic
I agree. I have said they pegged him based on his size, when it takes one punch to the throat to dislodge the disc by your adams apple to kill you (had a friend in highschool almost die from it). The verdict was wrong. Too many witnesses said he hit him 3 times. Only ONE of those punches placed in the right place could have done it, and it could have been accidental, not a "beating to death". Now we have a society that will convict based on the size difference of people. Costin could have killed Junta just as easily with one punch. It happens he didn't. Very sad verdict indeed. Junta has been attacked twice now.
115 posted on 01/27/2002 3:11:57 PM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: moodyskeptic
As I have said before, if Costin was that bad, the parents should have removed him a long time ago.
117 posted on 01/27/2002 3:18:46 PM PST by Great Dane
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