Genes Help Identify Oldest Human Population

New York Times ^ | 0108-2002 | Nicholas Wade

[blam]

Most of the people mentioned in this article are descendents of the original "Bushmen". There are no longer any 'pure' Bushmen alive, the descendent population are mixed with the Bantu (black) people. I have recently read a lot about the Bushmen and will elaborate more later on this thread. Incidently, the Kung Bushmen were featured in the movie, "The Gods Must Be Crazy", a very funny movie.

[My2Cents]

From the headline, I thought they were focusing on Al Gore voters in Palm Beach County.

[Restorer]

Uhh, aren't all human populations, by definition, equally old?

Probably worded this way for PC fears of referring to the Bushmen as either primitive or pure.

[gcruse]

Uhh, aren't all human populations, by definition, equally old?

I'm having trouble framing this, too.  We are all descended
from the same ancient population, else whence?  Is this
a distinction without a difference, or is it a way of saying
they have found a profoundly primitive human genotype,
but lack the testosterone to say so?

[blam]

"or is it a way of saying they have found a profoundly primitive human genotype, but lack the testosterone to say so?"

Most of the DNA studies dealing with ancients is usually done using mtDNA (the female line), this study apparently was done using the Y chromosome (male line) and in doing so an ancient population 'popped' up that otherwise would not have using the mtDNA. Am I reading this wrong?

[Varda]

Interesting! "Then another lineage derived from the Asian population reached Europe 30,000 to 20,000 years ago." I hadn't heard this before. Will look into it.

[PatrickHenry]

If this population group has the closest thing to the presumed original genetic makup of humans, which I gather is what the article is saying, would it not also be true that this population group is the closest to our pre-human ancestors? Or is that an unwarranted conclusion?

[crystalk]

Virtually every word in this article is so tainted by political correctness and what can now be said out loud, as to make it convey no information at all. If it had just said "Hattentaten Taten taten," it would have been equally informative.

[Bahbah]

A very funny movie and quite delightful. BTW, thanks for this post.

[blam]

"Virtually every word in this article is so tainted by political correctness and what can now be said out loud, as to make it convey no information at all. If it had just said "Hattentaten Taten taten," it would have been equally informative."

Thanks for the critical appraisal. Do you have anything informative to add to the discussion?

[Cvengr]

"...sample Africa 30,000 years ago, there must have been a population continuum from Ethiopia to southern Africa, a sparse population because they were all foragers, but one that must have had a common ancestor," ...

If this is science, then why all the presuppositions about the origins if we are trying to determine the origins?

For all the trash that has been produced over the past 100 years, isn't it a bit amazing how little of it ever remains more than about 20 years. Take this back a 1000 years and remarkably scant remains exist. Now attempting to extrapolate these features out to the point of having to produce exponential timelines simply to account for a forced presupposition that all humans were foragers, let alone claiming undeniable proof of their existence beyond about 5000-6000 years seems to borrow much more substance from present arrogance than from sincere truth searching.

I would like to be able to respect those who dedicate so much time to archeology and other methods of documenting ancient history, but I find way too much reliance on a presupposed timeline of exponential functions rather than proofs that no other answer is possible.

Considering the incredible lack of conscientiousness on the behalf of such researchers, I wonder what portion of that community even has members who are even capable of novel research. It's not the same scientific community I gre up with which was dedicated to truth, honesty, and honor for the sake of answering challenging questions. It seems much more like a contest to tickle each others ears and revel in intellectual arrogance. Just my third party viewpoint.

[parsifal]

"Genes Help Identify Oldest Human Population"

I don't use genes. The blue hair, big cars with AARP bumper stickers, wrinkled skin, and driving 30 miles an hour on the interstate are how I identify oldest population.

[Jim Noble]

The Y chromosome data gives different information because conqueror population males usually rape and impregnate conquered population females and not vice versa.

For example, Indian Brahmins result from Euro-Persian males impregnating South Asian females-their marriage and family customs have highly conserved the Y chromosome DNA but not so the mt-DNA.

Y-DNA and mt-DNA would only give the same information if matings between invader males and native females were equally likely as matings between invader females and native males-which cannot possibly be true.

Interesting stuff.

[cookcounty]

Thank God Hitler is dead. I'm sure he would have loved to point out that some humans are more evolved than others and, well you fill in the blanks for yourselves. These theories have the potential for much evil.

[blam]

I first became interested in the Bushmen when I read an article where an anthropologist was speculating about the origins of the Leprechauns of Ireland. He went on to speculate that the Bushmen may have been the original inhabitants of Ireland and also the origins of the legends of the Leperchauns. I read 3-4 books and the Bushmen do fit the bill as the Leperchauns.

Some things I learned about the Bushmen:

*They are shy and retreating. They always run and hide, never fighting. They hide in the bushes and rocks when anyone approaches.
*They are very small (At least the 'real' Bushmen)
*They have the most primitive language on earth.
*They dance around fires all night in gay merriment
*They have pointed ears
*They are not black
*They have a Mongoloid spot at birth (as do most Asians at birth)
*The females have an 'apron' over the genetial area
*They have oversized buttocks (some tales say they function as a source of moisture storage, like camel humps)
*All other people in Africa call them the ancient ones
*Their presence is recorded in the Egyptian glyphics, including their physical uniqueness.
*There are no longer any 'pure' Bushmen, they are mixed with the Bantus (blacks)

I also came across the Fomorians as a source of the term 'black Irish' in Ireland. (The Spanish Armada was not the source of this term). But, this another whole story, for later.

[blam]

"Y-DNA and mt-DNA would only give the same information if matings between invader males and native females were equally likely as matings between invader females and native males-which cannot possibly be true."

So, unless both the Y-DNA and the mt-DNA are considered in any sample population, then you're not getting a true picture of that population? That would make The Seven Sisters/Daughters Of Eve stories BS, huh?

[blam]

Mongolian Spots

[NetValue]

Thank you for a good post.

[lizma]

There's now 27 sisters of Eve. 7 are European and the rest are Asian and African.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks for the flag!

I've been busy on the Governor Davis threads , he may be related to some of the ancient ones!

To find all articles tagged or indexed using 'Gods, Graves, Glyphs'

Click here: 'Gods, Graves, Glyphs'