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Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God
Scientific American ^ | 1/7/02 | Michael Shermer

Posted on 01/07/2002 8:19:37 AM PST by dead

click here to read article


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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Thanks for the link.

Pretty sad story. Sounds like an end-life crises: Mead brings everyone down (except Einstein) by not saying... really anything. And when he does --- such as when he speaks of the Schroedinger cat --- he does not show understanding of the issue. Statements like "generations of students were driven out of physics becasue they no longer could comprehend it" (to wit) are very revealing: plenty of students who wanted to be theorists "switch out" after the first year once the grades are in; he was probably one of them. I wonder whether he can even read modern theory work. Again, statements like "70 years of darkness" do not suggest he can or he has done so. I guess, he feels that ranting is his last chance to make a theory contribution.

201 posted on 01/07/2002 5:44:57 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: mindprism.com
"God is 'inside out' right now, IN or UNDER reality not OUTSIDE it."

That's an interesting point. Perhaps you've seen something. But what you're talking about here I would call the Holy Spirit. I believe God, the Father, is greater than our impression of reality and so is beyond it.

202 posted on 01/07/2002 6:32:35 PM PST by Pietro
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To: RightWhale
Time for a little more (mathematical) comic relief - from the economist, mathematician, philosopher, con man, and presidential candidate, (self-advertised as the only opponent George Bush feared enough to put in prison) Lyndon LaRouche. .

"The Timaeus takes the same view of the universe as St. Paul's observation that "we see things as through a mirror darkly," the argument Plato also makes in describing the images of visible space as like the shadows cast upon the wall of a dark cave. The problematic feature of Plato's argument (and St. Paul's) on this point, is that a rational comprehension of the fuller meaning of this was not available in any available written source until Riemann's 1854 habilitation dissertation, On The Hypotheses Which Underlie Geometry. In Riemannian physics, the real, unseen universe is a continuous manifold. The images seen in that real world, the continuous manifold, are "projected" as visible events of sense-perception into a distorted spherical mirror, such that we see the continuous manifold projected onto that "mirror" in the form of apparently discrete objects moving about in empty, Euclidean space. This "mirror", called the discrete manifold, is a subsumed feature of the continuous manifold, and exists as if it were a mirror everywhere embedded within the subsuming continuous manifold."

PP> 172-173.Will this man become president?

Lyndon LaRouche

New Benjamin Franklin House (1983)

I am a casual collector of crackpot books.

203 posted on 01/07/2002 7:05:55 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: semper_libertas
"And if God is all and all is God, then God is part of the problem; I cannot accept that, either. " (Mine)

There are no problems in Gods universe. There are only flawed human perceptions. But thats no problem either, except for humans

Ah, Gnosticism. Christian Science?

204 posted on 01/07/2002 7:43:12 PM PST by Migraine
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Wow! Thanks for the link. Great read.

It was cool to run across George Gilder again too. Thirty years ago his book, "Wealth and Poverty" changed me from a mush brained liberal to the rabid conservative I am today.

205 posted on 01/07/2002 7:48:38 PM PST by UnChained
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To: dead
"Any sufficiently advanced ETI is indistinguishable from God."

Not as long as he hasn't created everything ex nihilo. These skeptics are such rubes.
206 posted on 01/07/2002 7:48:58 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Semper
And if God is all and all is God, then God is part of the problem; I cannot accept that, either. (Mine)

What do you accept in that regard?

I accept that God created the universe out of nothing: He said, "Let it be", and it was. That He exists totally apart from His Creation. That problems (sickness, poverty, injustice, war, etc.) are the result of man's disobedience. That God, being utterly apart from the problems is in a position to solve them (redemption). That (thank God) He has instituted a plan to do just that. Thanks for the question.

207 posted on 01/07/2002 7:51:35 PM PST by Migraine
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To: Aurelius
No, I can't imagine Larouche as president. He would have to be the smartest president of all time, so smart that nobody could understand a word he said. Cut from the same cloth as Khaddafi.
208 posted on 01/07/2002 7:59:37 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: semper_libertas
Actually I like the periodicals 'Physics Today' and 'American Scientist' better than 'Scientific American'.
209 posted on 01/07/2002 8:06:18 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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Comment #210 Removed by Moderator

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To: Freakazoid
A computer so fast it can perform an infinite loop in 2 seconds!

No doubt the product announcement will appear in The Onion.

212 posted on 01/08/2002 6:33:03 AM PST by js1138
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To: dead
My dogs think I am God.

I ain't.

213 posted on 01/08/2002 6:38:26 AM PST by johnandrhonda
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Comment #214 Removed by Moderator

To: eleni121
nice to see the xtians are still arguing on peoples real beliefs as opposed to wild slander tsk tsk
215 posted on 01/08/2002 12:20:33 PM PST by Kboylan
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To: Kboylan
oops left an '"' in there. try xtian love
216 posted on 01/08/2002 12:24:46 PM PST by Kboylan
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To: semper_libertas
Religions sincerely devoted to God will be strengthened by science, never weakened.

A very brave statement, and one that I happen to agree with entirely.

217 posted on 01/08/2002 12:25:16 PM PST by Scully
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To: Kboylan
Those who call themselves Christian are just as perverted as Clarke. So what is your point? Who assigned you the title of censor?
218 posted on 01/08/2002 3:52:56 PM PST by eleni121
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To: Migraine
He exists totally apart from His Creation.

This is somewhat puzzling. The Bible indicates that God fills all space, is ever present and created us in His image. If this is true, how (and why) would He be totally apart from us? And how could we (the image) be so different from our Source?

"Free will" is not the answer because God must have free will and God does not choose evil - if man is His image, man would not choose evil either.

219 posted on 01/09/2002 7:20:28 AM PST by Semper
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To: Semper
His Creation is in a different dimension entirely -- it is temporal, subject to time. To God, a day is the same as 1000 years and vice-versa. This sets God apart from us, qualitatively.

His creation is material. He is Spirit. That sets Him apart from us.

He states point-blank that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, and that our sin has separated us from God. That, too, sets us apart.

The fact that we are in His image and likeness probably refers to the fact that we, too, are spiritual beings, individual, willful and able to "create" -- but these characteristics in us are measured, finite. Not so with God, who has all without limit or measure.

So, if you're right and I'm wrong, what's the upshot? My sin is that I'm God and didn't know it? On the other hand...

220 posted on 01/09/2002 9:23:50 AM PST by Migraine
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