Pilot at fault used Profiling against SS Agent

CNN - Crossfire Transscript 1/4/2 ^ | 1/4/02 | Self

[ImphClinton]

Here's one from Karen who's from upstate, New York. Big territory. "Bill, I almost always agree with you, but you are really wrong on this one. The pilot did exactly the right thing. And anyone who believes a government ID cannot be forged is living in a fantasy."

[Howlin]

Do we ALL have to die to prove we're not profiling???? Will it require all of us to go to our deaths to prove we're NOT discriminating against anybody?

[Gee Wally]

Dave S, you conveniently left out the last sentence of my post:

Whatever the facts may be, we can rest assured that once the trial lawyers get ahold of them, we will never know the truth.

I made no pretense that I know what the real facts are or that I believe what American Airlines said. Your response is illustrative of the kind of tactic I was talking about -- take statements out of context, twist what was said, draw wholly unsupported conclusions from the facts. A pretty good imitation of a pompous, primping, self-righteous trial lawyer at work.

[Outraged]

Yes anything that doesnt agree with your rigid viewpoint on anything is a disruption.

I must side with Uber. Dave, the truth is rigid. The truth is biased, bigoted and rigid. You really must rethink your moral(truth) relativism. You sound like a liberal with that claptrap.

[Dave S]

And what makes you think all those people waiting in the plane should be asked to wait a little longer while all this happens?

The plane had a scheduled 40 minute delay to board all passengers and luggage from the flight cancelled for mechanical reasons. A five minute call to White House by either the Captain or the SOC Manager could have easily been squeezed into the planned wait time. Instead the captain delayed the flight 75 minutes and made no one happy.

As it is, after the plane left, this was done and the agent went out on the next plane. Of course, that was AFTER it had been verified that he was in fact an officer and the agents supervisor apologized for the agent losing his temper.

Agent did not go out on the next flight. He wasnt able to get another flight out until the next day after the SEcret Service had contacted American Airlines and asked them for permission. His arrival was almost 24 hours later than if he had been on the flight that left without him.

The thing is, the situation WAS resolved, it had less to do with the agents nationality then it had to do with his threatening manner as well has his challange to authority.

The situation was not resolved. He was allowed to fly on American the day after Christmas but its not clear that the ban on flying American Airlines is not still in place. How you can say it less to do with nationality than it had to do with his threatening manner when a history of the Middle East was the big evidence against him, besides his appearance and name. If the pilot had made any attempt to determine who he was I would agree with you. Even the pilot doesnt indicate that the Agent got threatening until near the end. Sounded to me like as soon as he felt the threat, he left the gate, closed the cockpit door and took off.

Additionally, its unproven that he threatened anyone. Will be interesting to see what happens when the two sides start taking depositions and when the Airlines personnel are interviewed by the Seceret Service under oath as part of their investigation. Lying under oath has sent many a political type to jail like Clinton's former transportation secretary.

[Cultural Jihad]

Do we ALL have to die to prove we're not profiling???? Will it require all of us to go to our deaths to prove we're NOT discriminating against anybody?

Hey, I figure when the Swedes decide to ram planes into our buildings, I'll be more than happy to endure all the racial-profiling and scrutinization the proper authorities want to use, and will understand the need for safety and scrutiny. I believe that most Arab-Americans also understand the need.

[McGavin999]

Regardless of how this turns out, this man needs to be removed from the Presidential Detail. The very fact that this thing has become so public proves that he can't handle a challanging situation and should be nowhere near the President. The whole thing, regardless of who is telling the truth, was handled poorly by this agent. I'm sure he's lost the respect of all his fellow officers, and the confidence of his superiors.

[Howlin]

I feel the exact same way about FAT Presybterians. Not the thin ones though. :-)

[Dave S]

what is your real agenda here? is it your goal to make sure that armed passengers of any ethnicity are allowed on board with no scruitiny at all? because thats where this is headed.

My agenda is to ensure that the agent gets a fair hearing. The facts of this case are in dispute. Given that the only way the identity of the pilot could be 100% confirmed was to contact the Secret Service and the pilot refused to do that and never did bother to find out whether he had an agent or armed terrorist at his gate to threaten other passengers and flight crews, I find his story hard to believe. Given his reluctance to do the one thing that could confirm the ID, he never seriously considered letting the agent fly with him.

I dont know where you get this fear that this will lead to armed passengers of any ethnicity being allowed to board. I had no problem with his being asked to deplane while they checked him out and apparently neither did he. I had no problem with them scrutinizing his ID carefully and I doubt he did either. What I do object to is a pilot decideing arbitrarily not to fly someone without a valid reason for doing so. If your concern becomes reality than you thank this pig headed pilot for not trying to resolve the dispute rationally before the lawyers and the PC police got involved.

[Dave S]

I wish people with agendas would cop to them.

I just copped to mine. Whats yours?

[Dave S]

I must side with Uber. Dave, the truth is rigid. The truth is biased, bigoted and rigid. You really must rethink your moral(truth) relativism. You sound like a liberal with that claptrap.

So I must believe in the NWO, the Black Helicoptors, UN soilders marching in American streets, Clinton being responsible for the OKC bombing, President Bush being behind the Anthrax letters, that Bush is a sellout because he only got 80-90% of his proposed tax cut, that he's a sell out for allowing any stem cell research, etc. etc. So if I question any of this, Im guilty of moral relativism. LOL.

[Cultural Jihad]

My agenda is to ensure that the agent gets a fair hearing.

A fair hearing on FreeRepublic? We are more than fair, but we are hardly a court of law. Who claims that the agent won't get a fair hearing? Sheesh.

[Howlin]

I don't have an agenda, except to see that things posted about KNOWN current events stick to the FACTS as known to that point in time.

And you never addressed #340. You completely misrepresented the agent's contact with the press and CAIR. I haven't seen you retract that.

[Nix 2]

I can not believe you still believe the Media Lies told yesterday. Seems the President should outrank any captain. The president ordered this man on to this flight to protect the President. This Captain had no right to refuse passage without even bothering to call a local number. In fact this Captain wouldn't even allow his suypervison to call and verify this agents identity.

Do you realize how many LEGITIMATE pilots' licenses, security keys, uniforms, and drivers' licenses have been stolen and never recovered? Do you realize that Mohammad Atta's parents still insist that someone faked his identity to receive a passport and visa? Do you realize how many illegals can go to almost any city in the US and get identification papers that it would take G-d to recognize as forgeries? Not to mention the forged documents that can be had for free if you are a terrorist with an organization behind you? Can you understand the seeds of panic this *agent* planted by his attitude, the unusual reading material in his carryon luggage, his arrogance and temper?
If he said the President ordered him to be somewhere, who gave Mohammed Atta permission to sit in the jumpseat in the cockpit of the plane he then hijacked? Why, none other than American Airlines...as a courtesy to off duty pilots. No one questioned HIS right to be there and thousands of people are dead because of it.
ONE Secret Service agent is no more special than Mohammad Atta. The agent is alive. The passengers are alive. And the PILOT is a hero.

[ImphClinton]

I champion the Pilot checking this guy out and profiling the arabs on board and even his becoming more concerned when hearing of a book with Arabic on the cover.

I Have a problem when he did not turn a suspected terroist over to the authorities especially considering this suspected terroist was armed.

I have a problem that unlike the thousands of pilots before him he was to lazy to call the Secret Service. Don't try to tell me he didn't have the number even my 10 year old could dial 1411 and get it. I have had employers do this to me to check out previous empolyers.

I also question how this story reached the media and would not put it pass a pilot to call the media to cause problems for the President (remenber the Bush Daughters?)

I have a problem that this pilot in his statement did not send regreats to the president that his actions caused a 24 hour delay in the Agents arrival.

I have a problem in AA not returning the Agents belongings to him.

I have a problem with AA not admiting that his mid-eastern appearance was a factor. If it truly wasn't I would have an even bigger problem with them.

I have a problem with AA for not apologizing for their part in this and lifting the restrictions on this Agent. At this point it is obvious to everyone that he should have been allowed on the plane.

I have a problem with AA not even bothering to spell check the reports before posting them on their web site.

I have a problem with AA not checking with the Agents supervisor to make sure this is indeed what was said to him by their operations manager.

[DoughtyOne]

Press used to be in LA on the ABC(7) affiliate. Bruce Hershensin used to rip him to shreds. I've never seen a guy get verbally beaten to a pulp worse than Press did. He'd lose his cool every time they debated. It was pure entertainment! Gotta love watching a guy like Hershensin who's intelligent and can think on his feet. If I had to choose between watching a good sporting event or one of those debates, I'd have chosen the debates hands down.

[Nix 2]

I don't think AA owes the President an apology. I think the agent did/does. In fact, I don't want him guarding my president if he can be turned so easily by CAIR. This smells like a HUGE setup to get AA to relax its rules and I'm not buying it. CAIR hasn't told the truth about anything since the day they came into existence including why they exist. His affiliation with CAIR precludes the fact that he could have had any gov't representation he needed, if he needed any. The publicity is what this was/is all about, not to mention a thunderbolt of fear thrown directly at AA. His demeanor was not exactly professional and the aftermath is downright transparent.

[Hacksaw]

Was this the actual title of the transcript? I linked to it and saw no such title.

[ImphClinton]

No there was no title. It is a transcript of their show which is why I included the link to the entire transcript. The 30 minute show covered several topics. A title "CNN Transcripts 1/4/2" would habe been meaningless, although that is what it says on the link. I suppose I could have gotten out my HTML manual and positioned the link but I hate it when others do this. I prefer to see the entire article when I go to see it. Putting the entire transcript here made no sense.

[jwalsh07]

How can this agent possibly do his job protecting the POTUS? He has by implication stated that he would not stop a middle aged Arab gentlemen with a gun and improper paperwork from entering an area where the POTUS was. If he did, he would by his account, be profiling and Lord knows we shouldn't be profiling, right?

[Nix 2]

Not unless they are cameos and I am wearing them. Thus sayeth CAIR.