Posted on 01/02/2002 8:15:10 PM PST by Darth Sidious
Well, this should be an interesting thread, for the irony if nothing else…
About five months ago, on August 7th, a couple of your friendly neighborhood Freepers – namely, Rebelbase and yours truly – stood at the intersection of Battleground Avenue and Pisgah Church Road in Greensboro, NC, and protested the red-light cameras that have gone up all over the city. It’d take up too much time to go into the details of our Freep, and the full story is on the ”After-Action Report” thread. But for a quick recap: for over four hours under the hot August sun, we told motorists to “Smile: You’re On KOMRADE KAMERA”. We literally got hundreds of honks and thumbs-ups of support. Our friends in law enforcement said they supported us in our efforts against the red-light cameras. It was a lot of fun, and we met a lot of good people during our time at the intersection.
Well folks, that was Round One. Now comes the far more serious Round Two.
A few weeks ago I was driving down the same stretch of road, heading into Greensboro on some business. It was raining, there had been some fog but otherwise visibility was good.
As I approached the same intersection of Battleground Ave. and Pisgah Church Road, the light turned yellow. I began to slow down but saw the guy behind me not stopping, then putting on brakes and skidding on the rain-saturated asphalt. Now, I saw the light just turn red just as my car got to the line at the intersection. But if I came to a sudden stop, I would almost certainly have been rear-ended to the best of my judgment.
To make a long story short, I got caught by the camera. And I'm counting no less than 3, possibly 4 violations of the U.S. Constitution on the citation in front of me.
I could pay the $50 fine, and it would be a neat and tidy affair. I could also never tell my children, with any sincerity, about how much we believed these cameras were wrong, so much so that we braved 100-degree heat against them. And if I rolled over now, and let this go on, what kind of incremental damage would I be doing to my children's freedoms? The same freedoms that our forefathers paid a far greater price for, that we might enjoy these liberties?
God gave the stewardship of those liberties to we the people. Not to the state, not to any government, but to us. Folks, you will not believe how much I've seethed the past week or so at reading this citation, how much disregard that enough of the wrong kind of people have for the Constitution.
I could pay the fine, and be comfortable. Or I could contest, and justify my actions, that they avoided serious damage to my vehicle and more importantly, to myself. And quite frankly... my conscience simply cannot allow me to pay this fine. My heart is compelled with no other choice, but to fight. And to fight with every whit of my being.
There is a federal lawsuit against the city of High Point, NC, for their red-light cameras. That doesn't encompass Greensboro, however. And to the best of my ability there are no lawsuits against Greensboro regarding them. I'm ready, willing and able to go the distance, to pledge not to be worn down, to be persistent as all get out, however long it takes to prove what you and me already know: that the red-light cameras are a gross violation of the United States Constitution. I want... no, have to fight this... but I can't do it alone.
At this point, it has been advised that I post this to FreeRepublic.com's general forum, to fill everyone in on what's taken place, at the circumstances now before us and what we can make of it to contest the red-light cameras. And to ask for any advice and counsel that Free Republic's "legal eagles" might offer. Because when it comes to anything like filing a lawsuit, I'm a babe in the woods. I've the passion, just not the knowledge or experience. But I wanna give this all I can.
We may or may not be able to change things that we deeply believe are wrong (not being God) but we are commanded to at least TRY!
We were quite successful here in Anchorage- but not by fighting these on a case-by-case basis. Civil disobedience (and showing up at the polls angry on Election Day) works.
1. Anything they send you in the mail goes in the garbage.
2. Dont pick up any certified mail. It could only be something bad.
3. When the old guy with the clipboard knocks on the door, dont answer.
I've since been pulled over for doing 50 in a 40 and got a "warning". No warrant for my arrest or suspended license or anything like that. They will make the threats however.
Your state may be more aggressive than mine..
2. Once you determine whether it is a moving violation you can see how to go about fighting it.
3. Decide how you are going to fight the ticket. Are you going to fight it from the position of the statute being unconstitutional or from the aspect that there were mitigating circumstances.
4. If you decide to fight it using mitigating circumstances, use FOIA to see if the man behind you also ran the red light. If not, he may be willing to sign an affidavit that because of weather conditions, he had troubl stopping. If he did run the red light, that is proof that your story is true.
5. Most of these statutes are written so that you do not receive a moving violation. In otherwords it is written so that the vehicle, not the driver get the ticket. They ticket the owner of the vehicle, not the driver of the vehicle. If it was a moving violation, they would have to ticket the driver and that would be pretty hard (until we get the chip implanted in our forehead) to prove who was driving. If it is not a moving violation(a parking ticket type violation) you could simply choose not to pay the violation. In order to collect their 50 dollars, they would have to serve you within a certain time frame. If you do not live within the city (if it is an ordinance) then normally they can't serve outside the city limits. In other words since they can't serve you within a timely manner, they have to drop the charges. So you could simply wait it out. You must study the statute before knoing how to fight the ticket. WIll it be a constituional fight or something less tha that.
Chris, it appears to me that Oddither gave you good advice in his #4 suggestion. Whatever, just remember the old saying, "You can't fight City Hall". Your energy is best spent in other endeavors. You got a wedding coming up, remember? :0)
Sounds like one I took to traffic court.
The judge said. "Guilty...pay the clerk. NEXT"
Time for the scanned ticket images to be posted.
I was in the left turn lane, stopped at the red light. The light turned green for a split second and then back to red. I checked for traffic in all directions - not a car in sight. I went through the intersection and withinin 15 seconds a cop pulled me over. I told him the situation and "Yeah, sure buddy", he issued the ticket.
As soon as I got home I called the signal division and reported the screwed up light. They fixed it that day and the next day I ordered a copy of the work ticket.
I explained the story to the JP and showed him the work order. He asked the cop if he had gone back to check the light. "No". Dismissed and one dirty look from the cop for embarassing him in court.
So, this is not related to your case in any way, just a sucess story.
To those that compare a red light camera to a security camera: A security camera tape doesn't issue any citations. It is used as evidence in an investigation.
The court is going to treat you like crap if you insist on a jury trial, especially if you plan to represent yourself, but it is your right. If you have the guts, go for it. Maybe we could pack the court with FReepers from your area for moral support.
National Weather Service stations have retrospective data that can confirm precipitation at a given time. Just need to get data from the station nearest the site.
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