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Red-Light Camera: I've Been Ticketed (Legal Help Needed)
January 2, 2002 | Christopher Knight AKA Freeper "Darth Sidious"

Posted on 01/02/2002 8:15:10 PM PST by Darth Sidious

Well, this should be an interesting thread, for the irony if nothing else…

About five months ago, on August 7th, a couple of your friendly neighborhood Freepers – namely, Rebelbase and yours truly – stood at the intersection of Battleground Avenue and Pisgah Church Road in Greensboro, NC, and protested the red-light cameras that have gone up all over the city. It’d take up too much time to go into the details of our Freep, and the full story is on the ”After-Action Report” thread. But for a quick recap: for over four hours under the hot August sun, we told motorists to “Smile: You’re On KOMRADE KAMERA”. We literally got hundreds of honks and thumbs-ups of support. Our friends in law enforcement said they supported us in our efforts against the red-light cameras. It was a lot of fun, and we met a lot of good people during our time at the intersection.

Well folks, that was Round One. Now comes the far more serious Round Two.

A few weeks ago I was driving down the same stretch of road, heading into Greensboro on some business. It was raining, there had been some fog but otherwise visibility was good.

As I approached the same intersection of Battleground Ave. and Pisgah Church Road, the light turned yellow. I began to slow down but saw the guy behind me not stopping, then putting on brakes and skidding on the rain-saturated asphalt. Now, I saw the light just turn red just as my car got to the line at the intersection. But if I came to a sudden stop, I would almost certainly have been rear-ended to the best of my judgment.

To make a long story short, I got caught by the camera. And I'm counting no less than 3, possibly 4 violations of the U.S. Constitution on the citation in front of me.

I could pay the $50 fine, and it would be a neat and tidy affair. I could also never tell my children, with any sincerity, about how much we believed these cameras were wrong, so much so that we braved 100-degree heat against them. And if I rolled over now, and let this go on, what kind of incremental damage would I be doing to my children's freedoms? The same freedoms that our forefathers paid a far greater price for, that we might enjoy these liberties?

God gave the stewardship of those liberties to we the people. Not to the state, not to any government, but to us. Folks, you will not believe how much I've seethed the past week or so at reading this citation, how much disregard that enough of the wrong kind of people have for the Constitution.

I could pay the fine, and be comfortable. Or I could contest, and justify my actions, that they avoided serious damage to my vehicle and more importantly, to myself. And quite frankly... my conscience simply cannot allow me to pay this fine. My heart is compelled with no other choice, but to fight. And to fight with every whit of my being.

There is a federal lawsuit against the city of High Point, NC, for their red-light cameras. That doesn't encompass Greensboro, however. And to the best of my ability there are no lawsuits against Greensboro regarding them. I'm ready, willing and able to go the distance, to pledge not to be worn down, to be persistent as all get out, however long it takes to prove what you and me already know: that the red-light cameras are a gross violation of the United States Constitution. I want... no, have to fight this... but I can't do it alone.

At this point, it has been advised that I post this to FreeRepublic.com's general forum, to fill everyone in on what's taken place, at the circumstances now before us and what we can make of it to contest the red-light cameras. And to ask for any advice and counsel that Free Republic's "legal eagles" might offer. Because when it comes to anything like filing a lawsuit, I'm a babe in the woods. I've the passion, just not the knowledge or experience. But I wanna give this all I can.


TOPICS: Announcements; Government
KEYWORDS: photoradar
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So ummm... what do I do now?
1 posted on 01/02/2002 8:15:11 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Rebelbase; JohnHuang2; lowbridge; Mercuria
Ping
2 posted on 01/02/2002 8:16:18 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: MouthOfSouth; Howlin; AnnaZ; Jefferson Adams
Ping
3 posted on 01/02/2002 8:17:31 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
You just screwed up. You should have told us that it was your pal Lenny who was doing the driving.

Fight it, Darth.

4 posted on 01/02/2002 8:18:43 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Darth Sidious
I say you go to court and represent yourself; tell the judge just exactly what you told us and ask for a prayer for judge. (P.S. Do NOT take your sign :-) )

It might help to take a weather report with you!

5 posted on 01/02/2002 8:21:38 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Darth Sidious
A good defense would be to have someone time the traffic light and compare it to a traffic light at another intersection known not to have a red-light camera installed. Basically the defense you would want to mount is that the yellow light is cut down by a couple of seconds so the red light comes on sooner leaving you without enough time to get clear through the intersection. You would want to claim they've set this up not to enhance safety but to increase revenue collection. Call it an entrapment defense if you like since its basically due to the way the red light camera catches violators that there's no way one could really avoid being photographed and sent the ticket.
6 posted on 01/02/2002 8:22:23 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: Fred Mertz
Oh yeah, and to illustrate how ridiculous these things are...

I was the one driving the car. Said car being in my Mom's name, and the citation came to her!

What was that again about there being witnesses to testify against the defendant...?

7 posted on 01/02/2002 8:24:35 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
The witness is there, just like it is when they catch other criminals on tape. If it was raining, you should have been driving slower.
8 posted on 01/02/2002 8:27:48 PM PST by cactmh
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To: Darth Sidious
This is FR. The greatest collection of grassroot conservative minds. I have no doubt that there are many qualified legal beagles who can help you. Give them hell! Good luck.
9 posted on 01/02/2002 8:30:10 PM PST by Bogey78O
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To: cactmh
correction....the guy who DIDN'T get snapped driving behind him, should have been driving slower.
10 posted on 01/02/2002 8:31:26 PM PST by Bogey78O
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To: cactmh
Cameras can lie. If it was raining OK so you drove slowly through the intersection BUT the red light camera doesn't know you had a valid reason to drive through with caution at the time. GIGO. Some judge should take that into account and dismiss the ticket.
11 posted on 01/02/2002 8:32:12 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: Darth Sidious
Your story is very good, Darth (wink, wink.) If you can't afford the services of Johnny Cochran, I say, throw yourself at the mercy of the court. Tell the judge you've been an orphan ever since you killed your parents, that usually works.

Seriously though, I see a dozen red light runners a day here, it's a real epidemic. But the last time I ran a red was for exactly the same reason - to avoid being rear-ended. I didn't get caught. Good luck!

12 posted on 01/02/2002 8:33:33 PM PST by Revolting cat!
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To: Darth Sidious
In Michigan, I've read that the timing of the traffic lights is set by state law: with many lights not meeting the standards. If the traffic is allowed to go at x speed and the intersection to be crossed is y feet across, the yellow light must be on for z number of seconds.

I don't know about North Carolina but it might be worth checking out. If state law does govern, take a video camera and tape several cycles with a stop watch either visible or at least present. Use a tripod; you don't want to be accused of "distorting" on purpose.

13 posted on 01/02/2002 8:34:28 PM PST by jackliberty
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To: Darth Sidious
 

Here is a link for red light camera information

http://www.dgroup.com/dg_html/dg_stoplight.htm <

14 posted on 01/02/2002 8:35:22 PM PST by Jimbaugh
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To: Darth Sidious
A former Cal Highway Patrol motorcycle patrolman with 20+ years experience once told me the vehicle code in most states reads roughly the same as California's: that after the light turns red, no vehicle may enter the intersection.

However, the codes rarely make mention of the yellow light nor do they define "the intersection". His argument was that if so much as one wheel of your vehicle is over the white line, you are technically "in the intersection".

Suggest you have state vehicle code in hand, photos of the intersection, timings on the lights with and without spycams and perhaps witnesses or other people who have received tickets at the same intersection testify for you.

Odds are the judge won't want to go to such lengths for a $50 hit to your wallet, when your case could create an argument to throw out other such cases.

Live to fight another day with the $50 in your jeans. Good luck and God Speed! (Whoops, I mean Good luck and God go the speed limit).

15 posted on 01/02/2002 8:36:27 PM PST by goldwater was right
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To: cactmh
Other criminals are also usually indicted with far more evidence than film or videotape. And given every possible legal recourse to defend themselves in a court of law. "Innocent until proven guilty" y'know?

This citation holds to nothing of the sort. You are "guilty" according to the machine. Pay your fine or appeal with an imposed handicap on your testimony. I'm not kidding.

16 posted on 01/02/2002 8:36:34 PM PST by Darth Sidious
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To: Darth Sidious
I would argue that Doppler Shift Phenomena influenced by normal environmental conditions precludes the concept of a "fair and impartial" report of the mishap. Of course, I would throw in, "when was the equipment last calibrated?"

That always gets them.

17 posted on 01/02/2002 8:41:47 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: Darth Sidious
Well gosh darn, I can't think of even ONE constitutional violation in having a camera take your picture while you commit a crime IN A PUBLIC PLACE!

As far as the merits of the case are concerned, you should count your blessings. If it had been a cop instead of a camera, you wouldn't be able to float that BS story about trying to avoid an accident. Maybe throw in something about having a heart attack victim in the car on the way to the hospital. Carte Blache, guy! Good luck

Bird

18 posted on 01/02/2002 8:43:14 PM PST by Piasa Bird
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To: Darth Sidious
Well gosh darn, I can't think of even ONE constitutional violation in having a camera take your picture while you commit a crime IN A PUBLIC PLACE!

As far as the merits of the case are concerned, you should count your blessings. If it had been a cop instead of a camera, you wouldn't be able to float that BS story about trying to avoid an accident. Maybe throw in something about having a heart attack victim in the car on the way to the hospital. Carte blanche, guy! Good luck

Bird

19 posted on 01/02/2002 8:47:51 PM PST by Piasa Bird
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To: Darth Sidious
Hire a good lawyer and fight it. Also, this document is well worth the read.

ps- it's a PDF file, so you'll need Adobe Acrobat. Read it.

20 posted on 01/02/2002 8:49:36 PM PST by Roebucks
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