Posted on 01/02/2002 1:15:38 PM PST by Theresa
There is considerable confusion about the Catholic teaching of salvation. I found this on the internet. It was written by a former Presbyterian who became Catholic as an adult. It should be easy to understand he explains the docterine very well. .........
The phrase (in Latin, "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" or "Outside the Church there is no salvation") is a very ancient one, going back to the very early days of Christianity. It was originally meant to affirm the necessity of baptism and Christian faith at a time when
(a) A number of Christians were being tempted under torture to renounce their faith and deny Christ. (He's talking about the Roman Empire and Nero's persecution of Christians, throwing them to lions and such.) (b) Large groups of Christians were being led into "pseudo-Christian" cult-type groups, which were actually just a front for pagan philosophy and religion. (Such as the cult of Mithras which I think was practiced around the time after Jesus died.)
In response, bishops repeated that, if a person were to be aware of the meaning of Christ and then freely deny him or reject him, they had essentially turned away from God and the salvation he offers.
As Christians, we believe that we are saved only through Jesus. As St. Peter reminds his audience in Acts 4:12: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved." In most cases, this means that we believe baptism in water, in the name of the Trinity, is the fundamental requirement for salvation.
However, even from the beginning, the great Christian writer and teacher St. Augustine said that the salvation imparted through baptism can also be imparted through other means: specifically, through the "baptism of blood" (a non-Christian who dies defending Christian beliefs or holy places) and "the baptism of desire" (a non-Christian who has expressed a firm desire to become a Christian, and who shows all the signs of living a Christian life, but who dies before baptism). In both of those cases, the Church has always recognized that the Holy Spirit leads people to God in ways which we cannot always explain or document.
God is able to save anyone he chooses. We trust that he often does this is ways that are not obvious to us, within the hearts of individuals who are sincerely seeking the truth. Otherwise, it would imply that all of humanity was excluded from salvation before Christ came, and that much of humanity (which has not had the opportunity to hear the Christian message until recently) was doomed to be eternally separated from God. This would imply a very cruel and elitist God. Our belief as Christians and Catholics is that God desires the salvation of all people … even those who are not Christian. How he achieves that, however, is a mystery. But we know that our God is a loving God who would not allow people to suffer on account of an ignorance that they were not responsible for.
The Church teaches that baptism, faith, and a life lived in Christ are necessary for salvation. However, Vatican II also taught that, within every human heart, God places the law of conscience. Everybody has a deep sense of right and wrong which ultimately comes from God, and which will lead people to God if they attempt to follow their conscience faithfully. Because Jesus is God, those who move in the direction of God (even non-Christians) are ultimately moving in the direction of Jesus. And if they are moving in the direction of Jesus and His truth, ultimately they are expressing a desire for the salvation that God gives. The Church teaches that, while it is certainly easier to receive salvation as a Christian, it is not impossible to receive salvation in other religions.
This is a challenging situation: on one hand, we must be respectful of the good things to be found in other faiths, and encourage people to live their faiths with sincerity and love.
On the other hand, this does not mean that all religions are the same. We believe that Christ is the ultimate revealing of God to the world, and that the more we know about his message, the greater the chance that we will accept his offer and be saved. We must therefore continue to preach the message of the Gospel, and encourage interested non-Catholics to examine the claims of our faith, without in any way coercing or intimidating them.
Father Feeney was an American priest who, back in the 1940s, taught that if a person was not a Roman Catholic, they were condemned to hell. This has never been the accepted teaching of Catholicism, and Father Feeney was reprimanded by the Vatican for his mistaken understanding.
Nevertheless, there are groups which continue to hold to this strict interpretation, even after the Pope and bishops have specifically rejected it.
The phrase "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" teaches us that salvation is only through Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life. But God is able to save whomever he pleases, whether they are baptized in the Roman Catholic Church or not.
It is important to remember that "the Church" in this phrase does not refer exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church. Salvation is a great gift, and God is a loving Father who wants all of his children to receive it. How he works this out, however, we will only understand in heaven. That is why, whenever we quote "Outside the Church, there is no salvation", we should also remember that "God is in no way bound by the sacraments."
Until then, we continue to proclaim Jesus as Lord (evangelization) and engage in respectful dialogue with followers of other religions, to discover the truths that God had revealed to them to guide them toward salvation, and to share with them the truth as we have discovered it in Christ.
Not necessarily so. There is room for interpretation here - especially since it is a translation and therefore not absolutely exact. It might be interpreted as "No one comes to the Father.." (No one comes to an understanding of the God-Principle, the Source of our existence) "..but by me" (unless you learn and practice the lessons I have given you by my life). The truth Jesus taught by his words and actions is universal and can be found anywhere and at any time. There are Christian principles in all human religions - the golden rule for example. If these principles are explained in different terms that does not change the truth they contain.
The problem with accepting this type of explanation is that it requires an open mind, unencumbered with dogma and superstition.
The situation is clear.
God MAY save some people outside the Church, such salvation will be through Jesus and we can't lay precise restrictions upon Him.
But the Church PROVIDES A PATH TO SALVATION which we are promised if we accept Jesus. There is no longer a MAY about it, because God has PROMISED it, if we accept Jesus we WILL be saved.
Many people here seem to be unable to recognize the distinctions between "none", "some" and "all". Those who pretend that Catholics are denying the need for existence of the Church are purposely interpreting "God MAY save SOME non-Christians" as "God WILL save non-Christians who live a good life etc." All that is really going on is that the Church is saying we cannot presume to say that everyone who has not explicitly accepted Jesus WILL go to hell.
"A implies B" is not the same as "not A implies not B". Just because we are ASSURED that there is salvation within the Church doesn't mean we can conclude there is salvation ONLY within the church; the most we say is that there is ASSURED salvation ONLY within the Church. ("Church" here refers to all Christians, not just Roman Catholics.)
Where exactly does Christ teach the "Golden Rule."
Oh I agree 100% However the key phrase is "provided their heart is receptive." Why would some have hearts that are not receptive? Well here's one example. Have you read the Islamic description of hell? In their conception of hell demons tear the skin off your body. It grows back and the demons tear it off again. This goes on for all eternity and each time the skin is peeled off, you suffer more. Islam teaches that to turn away from Islam means you will go to hell. So the prospect of this horrible, horrible punishment might keep a person's heart from being receptive. Some people are very impressionable. And such a person who has had this fear ingrained in them, is sort of brainwashed. Part of their free will has been tampered with and so their hearts are not receptive. And it's not really their fault.
I do not think we can say for certain that God automatically comes in a fixes this disturbed pattern and makes the person receptive to grace. I think he does it sometimes and sometimes not. Sometimes children die before they are old enough to understand the gospel and accept it. God lets that happen and we don't know why but we believe he is merciful and does not send that child to hell.
Most probably referencing Matthew 7:12 which says:
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law of the prophets.
What is also interesting is Christ's follow up versus: 13-15:
Enter in at the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
If that is true, then, sorry, but those Roman Catholics are wrong. I don't think it is true, however. My mother and father are both very devout RC's and I know that they don't believe that devout Muslims are saved. Muslims do not believe in salvation through Jesus Christ (who by His death paid the penalty for our sins that we could never pay) so to believe that they are saved by being devout Muslims is wrong doctrine. The Bible (God's Word) is very clear on that.
Catholicism does not teach the same doctrine of salvation that most Protestants believe in.
"Though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed...a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ...for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galations 1:8, 2:16
"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9
Compare and contrast that with the Roman Catholic Church's teaching:
"If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law [of the Roman Catholic Church] are not necessary for salvation but...that without them...men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification...let him be anathema." Council of Trent, 7, General, 4
God Himself declares that it is by faith alone, yet the Catholic Church feels they can countermand God.
But one of the many reasons I left the Catholic church.
Thanks-but really, that is not the context of my disagreement. My disagreement is where some can attribute salvation to a religion outside of Christ, as the poster was implying. In fact, his personal profile says basically that in a nutshell. read it and then youl'll see that he is trying to say that salvation does not have to come through Christ.
And... it's not called the golden rule. It is a general statement that if you love God and man, you will refain from breaking any of the commandments. All the commandments did was tell us that God wanted us to love Him and our fellow man. That doesn't mean that we have to accept what they say as gospel-when it isn't.
There is abig difference between loving your neighbor, and believing his lies.
Matthew 19:26
"...I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Romans 9:15
What happens to pagan idol worshippers who do follow their conscience?
I agree with you. That is why I referenced the versus immediately following it. I understand that Christ does not call it "The golden rule". I was only providing the reference to what "the world" typically refers to as the "golden rule" in the Bible. Perhaps I should just have placed a "bump" there but I wanted to include the warnings in the scripture that followed that verse. People tend to select only what they want to hear.
Bummer. It is sad to think of Ghandi burning in hell.
I was wondering how long it'd take. 12 posts. Yup. Think that's a new record.
Gotta love the absolute arrogance of some Catholics. Methinks this is God's sense of humor at work.
Pope Boniface VIII (1302 A.D.):
So, when the Greeks and others say that they were not committed to the care of Peter and his successors, they must confess that they are not of Christ’s sheep, even as the Lord says in John, ‘There is one fold and one shepherd’... Furthermore, that every human creature is subject to the Roman pontiff,—this we declare, say, define, and pronounce to be altogether necessary to salvation (From the Bull Unam Sanctam).
The Council of Florence:
The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, and almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church (44Henry Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma (London: Herder, 1954), p. 230, #714).
Pope Innocent III (1198-1216 A.D.):
By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic (Church) outside which we believe that no one is saved (From the letter Eius exemplo. Found in Denzinger, p. 166, #423).
Pope Clement VI (1342-1352 A.D.):
No man of the wayfarers outside the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved (From the letter Super quibusdum. Found in Denzinger, p. 204, #570b).
Pius IX (1846-1878 A.D.):
For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God...But the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well- known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom ‘the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior,’ cannot obtain eternal salvation (From the Allocution, Singulari quadem. Found in Denzinger, pp. 416, 425; #1647, 1677).
The Council of Trent
Seventh Session: Decree Concerning the Sacraments
For the completion of the salutary doctrine on Justification...it hath seemed suitable to treat of the most holy Sacraments of the Church, through which all true justice either begins, or being begun is increased, or being lost is repaired. After this Catholic doctrine on justification, which whosoever does not faithfully and firmly accept cannot be justified.
Canon I: If anyone saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or that they are more, or less, than seven, namely, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order and Matrimony; or that any of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament: let him be anathema.
Canon IV: If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification; - though all (the sacraments) are not necessary for every individual: let him be anathema.
Canon VIII: If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace: let him be anathema (The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1919 ed.), pp. 118-121).
Vatican I:
Further, all those things are to be believed with divine and Catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment, or by her ordinary and universal magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed. And since, without faith, it is impossible to please God, and to attain to the fellowship of his children, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will any one obtain eternal life unless he shall have persevered in faith unto the end...The first condition of salvation is to keep the rule of the true faith.
If any one, therefore, shall say that blessed Peter the Apostle was not appointed the Prince of all the Apostles and the visible Head of the whole Church militant; or that the same directly and immediately received from the same our Lord Jesus Christ a primacy of honor only, and not of true and proper jurisdiction: let him be anathema.
If, then, any should deny that it is by institution of Christ the Lord, or by divine right, that blessed Peter should have a perpetual line of successors in the Primacy over the universal Church, or that the Roman Pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.
We teach and define that it is a dogma divinely revealed: that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is, when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith and morals to be held by the universal Church, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the divine redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed for defining doctrine regarding faith or morals; and that therefore such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church.But if any one—which may God avert—presume to contradict this our definition: let him be anathema.
This is the teaching of Catholic truth, from which no one can deviate without loss of faith and salvation (Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (New York: Harper, 1877), Dogmatic Decrees of the Vatican Council, On Faith, Chapter III; Chp. 4, pp. 266-71).
Vatican II:
This sacred Synod turns its attention first to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon sacred Scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. For Christ, made present to us in His body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique Way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn. 3:5) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by God through Jesus Christ, would refuse to enter her or to remain in her could not be saved.
The mission of the Church concerns the salvation of men, which is to be achieved by belief in Christ and by His grace. Hence the apostolate of the Church and of all her members is primarily designed to manifest Christ’s message by words and deeds and to communicate His grace to the world. This work is done mainly through the ministry of the Word and of the sacraments, which are entrusted in a special way to the clergy (The Documents of Vatican II (Chicago: Follett, 1966), Walter M. Abbott, S.J., General Editor.
So I ask, do we believe what they say (or write) or what they teach and hold as true?
I guess this is an area where "devout RC's" aren't always in agreement! I imagine most of us would accept Mother Teresa as a devout Roman Catholic. Here's what she says about the conversion experience:
"What we are all trying to do by our work, by serving the people, is to come closer to God. If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are, and then by being better we come closer and closer to Him. If we accept Him fully in our lives, then that is conversion. What approach would I use? For me, naturally, it would be a Catholic one, for you it may be Hindu, for someone else, Buddhist, according to one's conscience. What God is in your mind you must accept." [Desmond Doig, "Mother Teresa: Her People and Her Work."]
I guess this is an area where "devout RC's" aren't always in agreement! I imagine most of us would accept Mother Teresa as a devout Roman Catholic. Here's what she says about the conversion experience:
"What we are all trying to do by our work, by serving the people, is to come closer to God. If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are, and then by being better we come closer and closer to Him. If we accept Him fully in our lives, then that is conversion. What approach would I use? For me, naturally, it would be a Catholic one, for you it may be Hindu, for someone else, Buddhist, according to one's conscience. What God is in your mind you must accept." [Desmond Doig, "Mother Teresa: Her People and Her Work."]
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