Posted on 12/30/2001 7:44:36 PM PST by Sparkvark
Ive noticed alot of threads on FR that mention Christianity. I was wondering, how do you define yourself as a Christian? Does merely professing oneself a Christian make you one? Im curious, how do you perceive the Christian faith?
Amen Bump
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Unfortunately, it is impossible for us mortals to see this, leading to lots of debate about how to separate "true Christians" from the 90% or so of Americans who claim it as their religion.
One of the identifying marks of a Christian is that they are generally happy, successful people. I do not mean successful in the financial sense of being CEOs of large companies -- many Christians are very poor and some are even bankrupt. I mean successful in the psychological self-actualization sense; these are people who are able to cope with life's up-and-downs; they strive for excellence at whatever they do; they have what Paul describes as an inner tranquility [Paul wrote numerous letters from prison, none of which complained about how unfair his incarceration was].
Verbally identifying "I am a Christian" does not guarantee that you are, but it is rude to doubt someone about this. Having an intellectual belief that God exists is not sufficient; you must also love Him. And the Bible is clear that we show our love for God by following his commands. None of us are perfect; all of us break God's commands (legalistic obedience isn't sufficient; we must follow the spirit of the law with our hearts as well), however true Christians have knowledge of God's forgiveness. He does not require perfection; merely a commitment to improve and acknowledgement of our failures.
Knowledge of the Bible is certainly an admirable trait, but is not absolutely required to be a true Christian. Very many early Christians were unable to read, and for many centuries the Bible was available only in Latin. Contrariwise, a great many atheists have read the Bible cover to cover. However, being a Christian does mean that you acknowledge the Bible as spiritual authority. Different Christians disagree on some interpretations of what the Bible means[especially on things in Genesis and Revelations], but if a clear teaching of the Bible contradicts a Christians personal moral code, the Christian is expected to abide by the Bible's teaching.
Public participation in Church activities is another trait which does not guarantee Christian salvation. Jesus had some of his harshest criticisms for the religious leaders of His day, and especially complained of people who prayed in public for the purpose of being seen praying. In fact, Jesus's advice on prayer is to "Pray in a closet". Christians are to have a personal connection to Deity, and not be a cog in a beaurocratic institution.
Advocacy of moral codes does not indicate Christianity. Certainly the Bible expresses a moral code which Christians should follow, and most Christians belief that life will be better for everyone if even non-Christians follow the behavior prescription and proscriptions in the Bible. However, a great deal of current moral harruanging is not based on the Bible. Many people calling themselves Christians are against all alcohol use, yet Jesus more than once turned water into wine. Contrariwise, Jesus makes it clear that anyone who divorces [for a reason other than adultery] commits adultery when they remarry-- and yet, a great many protestants give the church's blessing to this sin. So many moral codes advocated by self-identified Christians are not Bible-based, and many people other than self-identified Christians advocate various moral codes. However, to be a Christian is to acknowledge that there is sin, that some actions are required and some forbidden [and many others permitted], and that we voluntarily chose to follow God's moral code in preference to our own culture or intuition.
This list has turned more into a "Calling yourself a Christian does not make you one", which gets back to my original point; true Christians are identified -- but not to us-- by having the holy spirit in their hearts.
However, forgiveness is a whole other thread - a very misunderstood concept. A topic for a new day when we are all refreshed.
I see your point and I agree. What I was trying to relay in my definition of "meat" was that this is where we have a role (i.e. a decision, choice, responsibility) to obey the will of God. He through His grace has forgiven me of my sins but my salvation is dependant on my obeying his word. If this is not a true statement then I fail to see why the scriptures tell me what I must do to be saved.
What a horrible load of BS. "Blessed are the poor in spirit". You are spouting a "theology of glory" and what you are advocating DOES usually imply that Christians will make money, be healthy, blah blah. Say, was John the Baptist a successful person by ANY human or psychological standard?
No, your salvation is dependent on Christ's having obeyed His word perfectly.
I believe there is a God, and we humans here on earth call this God different things...
John the Baptist was a Jew, and so was Jesus.
That was not a very nice response to the person's opinion, you deliberately misrepresented what she wrote, out of your own spite or what have you. I think you should apologize.
In any case most of the born again Christians I know ARE happier than the unsaved people I know, despite their problems in life. It is the inner joy in looking towards the future with their beloved Saviour that gives them that inner joy others lack. I've seen terminally ill Christians who glow with the love of Jesus.
That part of my salvation has been done for me. I had no say in the love God has shown for me. I do have a say in whether I obey His word.
I don't know if we have got stuck on samantics here or what. So, let me ask...Do I go to heaven no matter what I might or might not do?
Suffering - another topic for another day.
First, I was absolutely clear that I was NOT talking about material or wordly success. What I meant [and I may have done a horrible job of explaining it] is that Christians trust to God to deliver them and are not [or at least should not be] overwhelmed by adverse circumstances. The example of Paul is that here is someone who is on death row. But Paul does not whine about being a victim, nor rail about how corrupt Rome is, nor does he seem to spend much effort on complicated legal maneouvering. My point about Paul is that even in these bad situations, he still acts for the good of the early Church, he still seems happy [and does write of his joy in God]. My point is that instead of taking the attitude of "I've been arrested, I'm a victim, I'm helpless and can't do anything," Paul took the attitude of "I'm looking forward to heaven and I find joy through God; I will continue to profess Christianity and influence the early Church. As far as success goes, I'm sure a great many more people will agree that Paul had a larger influence on history than, say, the particular centurian who arrested him. Which was more successfull?
Just to preempt another argument, this last part answered the question "Say, was John the Baptist a success" and isn't intended to say that all Christians will be just as famous thousands of years later.
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