QUESTION ON SPANKING (VANITY)

Question for Freeper Parents - My wife and I have a 3 year old who is beginning to explore his boundaries. As with every child that includes doing what he is told not to, throwing fits of rage when he doesn't get his way, etc. My wife and I beleive he is now old enough to be spanked when he does not listen and starts trying to do his own thing.

However, my wife, who was not spanked as a child, brought up an interesting question. My son is in the stage where he sometimes shows anger by hitting. We always tell him this is wrong and punish him for it. What do we tell him when he asks why it is OK for us to spank him, but not OK for him to hit.

Granted the right answer to this is "Because I'm the parent". That would be explanation enough for an older child to understand but I don't think a a 3 year old (who is very perceptive) will comprehend that explanation. When I was spanked I never asked that question, mainly out of fear. But it is a good question. Now mind you, this will not stop me from spanking but I just want to see if anyone else had this dilema and how it was solved.

And for all you anti-spanking Nazi's I'm not abusing my son. He will be told before being spanked why he's getting it, will only get one swat on the butt (my father told me when I was older that if you give the kid more than one swat you are doing it for yourself, and not for the education of the child, which is the purpose), and after it is over I tell him I love him and did it because he had to learn a lesson.

You're so right, RayBob. Somedays the threat of a spanking does absolutely nothing to quell the behavior. Those are the days that I pick up the phone and call "Daddy" at work...and they have to talk to him on the phone. Remember that old saying that mothers used to use..."Just wait until your father gets home?" Well, it still works. When I am at my wits end with them, all I have to do is pretend to pick up that phone...and they're back in line. Taking toys away works also. Especially if they are fighting over them. "Oh. You can't play nice with this toy? Put it in the bin for the kids who don't have any toys." Or, if they refuse to clean the family room? "I'll go get the garbage bag, you fill it up."

But I must say this again: follow through is THE MOST IMPORTANT and THE HARDEST thing to do. I learned that lesson well....one time I threatened them with the "garbage bag". I didn't follow through, and the room still looked the same. I cleaned it up because I was tired of looking at it. WRONG. The next time it happened, I told them they had 10 minutes to get the toys back to where they belonged, or else...after 10 minutes, there were still about 5 or 6 toys on the floor. I got the bag, made them put those toys in there, and we proceeded to get in the car and drive to the Salvation Army where they had to drop them off. Never had to do that again.

Oh, I do enjoy them, believe me. They are very loving little boys, and I never have had ONE COMPLAINT from a babysitter or anyone else that has watched them for us. As a matter of fact, some babysitters will only watch our kids. :-)

The other day I was listening to them talk to each other and my youngest one said to his brother, "I'm not very good at reading. I am never going to learn how to read." (He's 5)....My 7-year old said, "Well then. Let's sit down and pick out a book and you can show me the words you do know, and I'll help you learn the words you don't know.."

Five minutes later, they were fighting again, but hey...:-)

1) Don't 'spare the rod'

2) Use the 'rule of thumb'; the rod should not be larger in diameter than the child's thumb and not denser than any American hardwood such as hickory. We used a lightweight hollow aluminum arrow shaft (stings but will NOT bruise)

3) A good thrashing consists of several swats. Less, and they will have 'gotten away with it'.

4) NEVER hit anyone with your hands unless it is self defense. If you hit your child with your hands, they will be afraid of your hands...that would be a bad thing, right?

5) Only spank the back of the thickest part of their rear end. Spanking diapers does not work, but spanking through normal clothing works fine when using a thin ROD.

6) Do not require them to drop their pants before spanking unless you want them to resent you for the rest of your life...

Oh, gosh, my wife and I both have had the worst time in that area with now-6yo Josiah. He's really a good kid, really good heart; but of course, like all kids (except Jesus) he really needs a talking-to and even a spanking from time to time. And I can't tell you how many times, his innocent responses or expressions have made it so that I've just had to turn my head, or put my hand over my mouth, to keep from just cracking up because he tickles me so.

I think that's the child who tempts to spoiling. I hate to have to punish him, and I love him more than anything in the world. Time after time, I'm tempted just to give him a big hug and kiss and blow it off. But God says it's my job to teach him obedience and right from wrong, and in the long run indulgence isn't love.

And while I'm rambling, he's a good example of how different kids call for somewhat differing approaches. I have one child who's hard as a rock. Required some stiff discipline even to get his/her attention and, I'm sorry to say, even that didn't do all that was necessary. Josiah, on the other hand, if he just knows he has displeased you, can just melt into tears. He has a very busy mind and sometimes it's hard to get him to focus, but once the matter's clear to him, that's it. As a consequence, he's required far less discipline that the other child did. Often a talking-to is all that's called for. To the other child, a mere talking-to = "I got away with it."

Dan

Neither I nor my wife has ever spanked any of our children hard. A single swift, startling, mostly noise-producing open-handed swat on the butt was about as violent as we ever got--or ever had to get. We set limits on behavior early and enforced them consistently. We tried never to compromise our parental authority by trying to be pals or peers to our kids. But we hugged them often and found ways to enjoy one another as a family and made time to laugh together.

I am very grateful for and pleased with how our children have turned out. Two of them are adults and the other two are still growing in that direction. The are drug free, porn free, cheerful, duty-oriented human beings who get along well with others. Just last week a woman in whose home my 12 year-old had spent a few hours with several other kids his age told me how impressed she was with my son. She said he was the most cheerful, outgoing, and engaging kid there and that she was particularly struck by how easily and courteously he could speak with and relate to her and the other adults who were present. I have had similar reports on all my kids over the years.

I don't claim to do everything perfectly, and I fully realize that kids will sometimes choose bad paths or behaviors despite best circumstances and parenting. I am humbly grateful for and acknolwedge's Gods hand in the lives of my own kids. When all is said and done, they belong to Him anyway. I just hope and pray that I willbe found to have been a faithful steward over their lives while they were entrusted to me.

He's not quite old enough for this yet, but Xena's Mom explained to me that until I was an adult, she was responsible for the consequences of my actions, and therefore she found it easier to keep me in line than pay or apologize on my behalf.

Xena's Mom has always been big on choices and consequences. I was always free to decide not to do what she wanted done, but I understood that my decision always bore penalties.

Consistency is vital to this system. You MUST follow through on the consequences, or your boy will know he can get away with everything. Xena's Mom had a troubling time when her darling daughter was an adolescent, because I have quite a mouth on me and I didn't really care about controlling it. On more than one occasion, she told me, "If you talk back to me one more time, I'll smack you in the face." On almost all those occasions, I chose to keep talking, and Mom chose to follow through. Ouch.

No, it wasn't child abuse; she never knocked my teeth out or blacked an eye or anything. She told me what would happen if I continued my chosen course of action, and then followed through. She never pulled a punishment sneak on me. I was adequately (nay, amply) warned, and I always had several chances to mend my ways and avoid the penalty. Choices and consequences.

I haven't taken the time to read all the responses. I hope I'm not duplicating an effort by responding. On the other hand I hope I am echoing the same thoughts. That would show that others agree.

I wouldn't have waited until 3 to start spanking. That's too late. I have 4 children. The youngest is two. The oldest is 11.
We begin the gentle smacking of hands at around one year. By the time they are two I already spank. Though at that age it doesn't take much of a swat. (actually it takes a hard swat because they are wearing a diaper.)

You should consider reading some of Dr. Gary Ezzo's stuff. He has put together an excellent training called, "Growing Kids God's Way."

You seem like a good daddy and I find it pleasing to see a parent go to great lengths (and possible public humiliation) to try to do the right thing for their child.

My mother was a psycho disciplinarian. She beat the living day lights out of us. I swore when I had my own children I would never spank. I did pretty good until my daughter was 4. She's a very good girl and never gave me much trouble. One day I was trying to get out the front door with a baby in a carrier, diaper bag over one shoulder and a purse over the other. My daughter was being a BRAT. I had a mommy melt down moment and tore into that kid. I told her I had had it with her and she better straighten up real fast. I spanked her a few times. She has never given me another moments grief. I just have to glare at her, and she behaves. She's a very sensitive child.

My son is strong willed to put it mildly. I have had to spank him several times. My rule of thumb is I only use my hand and never a tool. Other people may use these, but I'm sensitive to it, because of my childhood. Each family is different and has their own standards.

Spanking and time out did not work for my 3 year old boy. He had a HORRIBLE temper and it only made it worse to spank him. I had to literally forcibly hold him in my arms against his will. He hated it of course, but his temper tantrums only lasted a few minutes holding him, instead of 15 minutes with a spanking or time out. (He would NOT stay in time out). I would hold him with all my strength and talk to him in his ear and say things like, "You will behave. This is unacceptable and you will get control of yourself".

I was scared to death for awhile, thinking I was raising a little Jeffrey Dahmer, but low and behold, my son is a wonderfully behaved little boy now. His temper is in control and he hardly ever misbehaves. He is the best behaved child in his Kindergarten class, and hasn't been in trouble once.

You have to know your own child and go with your gut. If one form of discipline isn't working, then go with something else. What works for one child, might not work for another. The thing that works the best for us is to get down on their level, grab them by the shoulders or arms and look them straight in the eye and tell them we will not tolerate inappropriate behavior. An occasional pop on the butt works too for us, but only for defiance.

Also catch her being good or helpful. I'm trying to teach my children to be polite, good human beings and responsible citizens. I've found the best way to teach this was by example. If they pick up their toys or clear the table without being told, I give them a simple "Thank you". Another example, which feminist would object to strongly is, I say “Yes sir” to my husband. It’s kind of a joke between the two of us, but it’s a good example for the kids. LOL

Best of luck to you and go with your instincts. Oh, one other thing I have noticed is most of the time when my children misbehave, they are tired or hungry. Yes, they do occasionally try to defy authority and for that they are appropriately reprimanded, but for little annoying acts of misbehavior, they usually need a nap or something to eat (especially at the age of 3).

(whew...that was long. Sorry).

You've received some good advice. Here's mine: You only need to justify "why" you spank to a three year old to the point of the child's understanding.

We spank for willful disobedience and dangerous situations. Wilful disobedience is anything that the child knows he should not be doing, but does anyway.

Spanking should be used as a first resort, imo. "If" the child does not clearly understand that he will be spanked immediately for a first time willful disobedience, spanking loses it's effectiveness, and you find yourself spanking more.....after several threats......not less.

We tell our children, "Mommy and Daddy know what's best for you and expect you to obey. If you don't, we will spank you because you have disobeyed, and we think it will help you to obey next time."

The first time you catch the child pulling the dog's tail is not the time to spank. That is the time to issue the first and only warning. "Honey, it's not nice to pull the dog's tail. It upsets him. How would you like it if I pulled your leg hard when you weren't looking?....... If you ever do that again, I will have to spank you."

Immediately upon being caught, the child is reminded that he had been told not to pull the dog's tail, and that his punishment is a spanking. Spank immediately, elicit an apology, and administer lots of love. The apology doesn't have to be totally sincere, but it does have to be spoken in a civil tone. Proud children will eventually learn how to issue a sincere apology.

Spanking should sting, but should not be so very painful that it's cruel. I don't spank through clothes. All that does is force you to spank harder, and you'll probably re-align the child's spine before he feels a good sting. :)

The real key to spanking less is to spend more time in training. We train our dogs in how we want them to act, but we forget that we should train our children! Punishment "after" the fact is not the best way to bring up little children, and is very demoralizing to a child.

Make a list of the 10 behaviors you want to change, and proactively "teach" your child how to behave under positive circumstances and with sincere, but not overdone, praise.

Contrast that with the parent who allows the child to whine and misbehave in the grocery store, and then after she can't "take it anymore", loses it and pops the child one on his backside. Exactly what did he learn? Not much, except that when mommy gets mad he might get a spanking. :(

Sorry Dan...I tend to avoid any "Bible according to me" websites.

I'm sure you are a fine Christian, but I believe that the Bible should be followed within its context and not according to its literal meaning. I have found that discussions between the fundamentalists types (those who live to the letter of the Bible) and the contextual types (those who live to the spirit of the Bible) are big wastes of time. It often degrades into one person quoting Biblical text and the other countering with the meaning of that text.

I will not engage in that. I took exception to your quote that those who do not spank thier children love thier children less (or not at all), and I'll let it end there. I wish you well.

"As someone posted above, it is easier to prevent the behavior than to correct it down the road. I'm afraid that's the situation I am in. Our daughter is our first child and her behavior snuck up on us... now we are trying to correct it."

Just wanted to encourage you that we did the same thing with one of our four, and although it has been a lot of work to undue, she has come around. I finally had a long talk with her after a particularly bad misbehavior, and cried my eyes out, telling her that I was very, very sorry that we had spoiled her, and that, although she was going to pay the price for it, I couldn't let it continue. I can't say that she changed overnight, but it was the beginning of a long......ummm......growth period for her and me. :)

As mentioned in other messages, it's vital that we learn to apologize sincerely to our children. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I had to apologize.........:)

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. (exodus 35:2)

You are making the mistake of confusing theological rules with practical rules. Some of the commands that God gives in the OT are "Because He said so". He has His reasons and whether we know them or not we still need to obey. Most of these (fortunately) have been overridden by the NT.

Other things are practical (spare the rod, spoil the child as an example). He tells us these things because these things work. He designed and built us, He knows how we operate better than we do. These things have not been overridden.

On to your question. (River rock or pea gravel). While river rock would finish the job faster and pea gravel would inflict the longest punishment, I've always preferred half bricks, they fit the hand nicely and are easy to aim well.

[Just for those who didn't notice, the last paragraph is a joke]

God Save America (Please)

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.