Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531

Catholic History | 12 12 2001 | Cap'n Crunch

[Delbert]

whos the little ooompa looompa at the bottom , holding her up?

[Cap'n Crunch]

Ah, there is my Queen!

Thank you, very much!

[sinkspur]

I ardently desire that a temple be built here for me

I'm not going to attempt to parse the words of an apparition of Mary to some poor Mexican peasant.

The Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe honors Christ through His Mother.

The Mother always points to Her Son. Always.

The fact that some choose to develop an almost superstitious adoration of Mary is contrary to her wishes and her behavior in Scripture.

[Jn316]

"Even in today technology, that appears to be very possible, but certainly it can bring people to appreciate the Lord's presence. I am sure, he knows better ways to show himself in an unenbigous way. But he does not seem to be interested."

Jesus never appeared to me on TV or as a figure in the sky but I gave my life to Him. His Way is working just great. He IS interested

"A couple of thousands years ago, he showed up briefly, and now all these generations got nothing but blind faith in some historical story?"

He showed up long enough for me.

[realpatriot71]

We don't agree on much at times, but at least we agree here. I don't mind if someone want to believe whatever they wanta to believe. I do, however, have problems with those who believe something and then try to pass it off as sound Christian theology, and then get pi$$ed when you point out that's it not sound, nor is it Biblical at all. If you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen, no?

[Cap'n Crunch]

Thanks al c!

I never tire of seeing Our Lady. The Aztecs viewed this miraculous image as an instant catechism. They said that she was greater than the moon because she was standing on the moon, greater than the sun because the sun was at her back. Greater than the stars because the stars were on her clothing, yet she cannot be God because she is praying. She has three sets of fingers together and one set seperated, indicating the Trinity. She has a small crucifix broach on her neck. It appears that the Holy Spirit is over her face in the form of a Dove.

[Cap'n Crunch]

That would be St. Michael the Archangel.

[eastsider]

The cherub and the moon were later human additions. One of the wonderful things about the image is that it is a composite image. The underlying image of Mary floats above the coarse fabric of the tilma like a photographic emulsion, and science cannot determine how the image was formed -- i.e., no brush strokes or the like. On the other hand, the stars, the crown, the cherub and other details were added over the years by the Aztecs and Spanish-Americans.

I'm still looking for a site that describes the infrared studies made of the image.

[AnalogReigns]

Thank the Lord that at that time, 1531, Luther had set much of the Church to right in Germany and Calvin was called to Geneva.

Praise God He's saved us from such blasphemous worship of Mary.

[eastsider]

Our Lady of Guadalupe, patroness of the unborn, pray for us.

[biblewonk]

We don't agree on much at times, but at least we agree here.

I wish I could remember what we disagree about.

I don't mind if someone want to believe whatever they wanta to believe. I do, however, have problems with those who believe something and then try to pass it off as sound Christian theology, and then get pi$$ed when you point out that's it not sound, nor is it Biblical at all.

The other thing they do is post the non-sense knowing that it will get comments, because they want the comments and debate, then they pretent to be all offended. In that offense they hope to maintain some moral high ground while treading a doctrinal lowground. And the beat goes on and on.

If you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen, no?

Absolutely! And the FR is definitely the kitchen.

[Coleus]

Tradition, Family and Property/America Needs Fatima

On the home page click on "America Needs Fatima"

Then click on "Anti-Blasphemy Center" then "To take a closer look at some past Anti-Blasphemy Protests"

You will see a horrific look at what a Museum in New Mexico did to desecrate Our Lady of Guadalupe. Sing up and get the flyers which contain 2 pre-printed post cards to mail in protest to the museum.

Our Lady of Guadalupe Insulted

This Isn't Just Any Blasphemy!

Just when blasphemy is withdrawn from one place, it rears its ugly head in another. This time in New Mexico.

The American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) and its America Needs Fatima affiliate campaign had just finished a successful rally of reparation and protest at the Brooklyn Museum of Art. The controversy centered around two portrayals of Jesus Christ that were finally taken off display. Press reports described them as a photo of a nude woman standing in Jesus' place at the Last Supper and another of a topless woman on a cross.

Now, the American TFP and America Needs Fatima's anti-blasphemy network is opposing another offense.

There is no such thing as an ordinary blasphemy since all blasphemy is by definition an extremely serious offense against God. However, Alma Lopez's "Our Lady" exhibit at the Museum of International Folk Art in Santa Fe, New Mexico goes to new extremes. Press reports describe the exhibit as a computer collage portraying a bikini-clad Virgin of Guadalupe, held aloft by a topless woman-angel.

A Special Devotion to Our Lady

Our Lady of Guadalupe is full of significance. The word Guadalupe was actually a Spanish mistranslation of the local Aztec dialect word, Coatlaxopeuh, which means "one who crushes the serpents." Within six years of this apparition, six million Aztecs had converted to Catholicism. The cloth where Our Lady's image appears, shows her as the God-bearer - she is pregnant with her Divine Son.

What makes this exhibit especially offensive is the fact that the Virgin of Guadalupe is officially the Patroness of all the Americas. She is the powerful intercessor cherished and loved by the Mexican people. Since she is shown as a mother with child, she is also considered protector of the unborn.

"This isn't just any blasphemy," claims Mr. Robert Ritchie, campaign coordinator. "It targets Our Lady in an invocation that is so dear to Catholics, Americans, and those who fight abortion. The 'artist' could not have picked a more cherished image of Our Lady to deform."

Need to Oppose Blasphemy

For these very reasons, the TFP's anti-blasphemy network is mounting a peaceful and legal campaign to oppose this latest exhibit called Cyber Arte: Where Tradition Meets Technology, where the offensive portrayal appears. As always, all violence is strictly forbidden in this protest.

Protesting is the only way to prevent more blasphemy. Just because this exhibit follows closely behind the Brooklyn exhibit is no reason to remain silent. In fact, public pressure recently forced officials at Kennedy airport to cover an unclothed Christ painted on a mural there. Email protests to Yahoo! led that company to abandon plans to market pornography directly on its search engine site.

Grassroots action can be extremely effective and Catholics - especially those devoted to the Blessed Mother - must come to her defense when so vilely attacked. Many local faithful have already staged protests at the museum in Santa Fe and voiced their objections. Now is the time to join with them.

To remain silent and indifferent only encourages the promoters of blasphemy to shamefully peddle their agenda. The American TFP campaign is well underway and includes Enough is Enough! protest postcard fliers, email protests, and a future rally of public reparation. Campaign participants are also encouraged to download a true picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe and spread this image to family and friends.

Be a part of this historic campaign today! Here is what you can do!

1. Pray for the success of this campaign. 2. To download a true picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe,Click Here

3. To order your FREE Enough is Enough! protest fliers, Click Here

4. Resend this special email message to your family and friends. 5. Send a special INSTANT email message to the Museum of International Folk Art by By Clicking Here

6. Write, fax or call the museum at: The Museum of International Folk Art, P.O. Box 2087, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2087. Phone: (505) 476-1200, Fax:(505) 476-1300. Museum of International Folk Art

[Cap'n Crunch]

Ever hear the term "Doubting Thomas." Jesus' own disciple didnt even believe until he probed the nail marks in His hands and feet and put his hand into Our Lord's side.

There are still doubting Thomas's today. This helps our faith. Jesus said that he would never leave us and appeared many times after His death. So, he has also appeared throughout history to many saints. What is wrong with Him sending an ambassador, His own Mother? Do you think he could not do it? Would not allow it?

Have you ever studied it for yourself?

[eastsider]

You'd probably stop breathing if you had any idea of the extent of Luther's Marian devotion.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Um, you better check into Luther's ideas on Mary, he was apparently rather devoted to her.

[Delbert]

Thy Life's A Miracle. Speak yet again
Rev. Robin Landerman Zucker
UU Church of Reading
December 17, 200
If we were to define a "miracle" in classical terms we'd likely say that it is an event which cannot be explained by the laws of nature and which some would attribute to divine intervention. A breach of regularity in the functioning of the world. On the other hand, the Christian theologian Augustine remarked that "Miracles do not happen in contradiction to nature, but in contradiction to what we know about nature."
Miracles are heralded and hyped with increasing frequency throughout our popular culture, including a plethora of websites. Many of these miracles are the slightly suspect stepchildren of the incident at Lourdes in 1858, when a young girl with healing powers named Bernadette was declared a saint. Thousands still travel to Lourdes and India, the shrine of Fatima and other well-known miraculous sites around the world in a quest for healing. The current tabloid miracle Meccas send up some troubling red flag for me. Many of them just seem ludicrous. Sadly, they also replace the sense of awe that miracles once embodied with a bizarre banality.
For example, an image of the Virgin Mary supposedly appeared on the rear fender of a Mr. Dario Mendoza's 1981 Chevrolet Camero in Elsa, Texas. Even after washing his car, the image grew larger, causing people to flock there to pray at the blessed bumper. His car appropriated by round-the-clock supplicants, the man had to resort to hitchhiking to work! Hundreds of people made a pilgrimage to a landscape painting purchased at an Oregon yard sale that was believed to harbor a living image of Our Lady of Guadeloupe. Holy apparitions are said to appear in flour tortillas, forkfuls of spaghetti, and in the bark of New Jersey blue spruce trees.
My personal favorite is the so-called Nun Bun, a cinnamon roll allegedly bearing the likeness of Mother Theresa which was discovered in a Nashville Bongo Java coffee shop. "I was horrified because I almost ate this religious piece of dough," confessed Ryan Finney, the employee who discovered the pious pastry. The bun has been the subject of a nine-minute documentary film, showed up on Leno and Letterman, and was eventually purchased for some obscene sum of money! The Nun Bun now resides in a freezer. The Rev. James Gill, a priest and psychiatrist who helps the Catholic church investigate folk miracles, views the majority of these claims as "either outright hoaxes or a pathetic bid for attention by the emotionally imbalanced or religiously confused." What's all of this about anyway? The phenomenon seems to point to a collective yearning for the sacred that is so great, a hunger for meaning that is so unmet, and a disenchantment with mere rationalism that is so profound that some folks resort to exalting pastries and paintings. It suggests to me that while we keep busy trying to locate the miraculous outside of nature, separate from ourselves, and beyond our everyday existence, we end up missing evidence of the Holy and the magical in "every cubic inch of space" as Walt Whitman put it. And it begs the question: Is life itself the miracle we overlook or undervalue while we're gazing hopefully into fenders?

[sinkspur]

The other thing they do is post the non-sense knowing that it will get comments,

And you and your cohorts willingly oblige with insults and ridicule.

.. because they want the comments and debate, then they pretent to be all offended.

No. "They" want other Catholics to comment, and non-Catholics to at least be courteous in their comments.

[newgeezer]

Oh, just like they hated Jesus without cause, they hate Our Lady without cause

Personally, I don't hate Mary. I love Mary. I hate what's been done to her name and in her name.

By the way -- and I'm sure you RCs have an answer for this one -- if she was sinless, why did she say her spirit rejoiced in God her Savior (Luke 1:47)? Someone who's sinless doesn't need a Savior.

[sakic]

Last year the Virgin Mary appeared in a window in New Jersey and hundreds flocked there. Then they cleaned the window.