Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Zinni Gives Up On Arafat
IsraelNationalNews.com ^ | 12/11/01 | Staff Writer

Posted on 12/11/2001 6:54:58 AM PST by veronica

American mediator Gen. Anthony Zinni, who met with Yasser Arafat yesterday, said about him, "I have never encountered such lack of trustworthiness in my life."

He said it was a "waste of time to try to reach a serious agreement with Arafat," and will concentrate on talking with other top figures in the PA - probably a reference to Muhammad Dahlan, Jibril Rajoub, and others.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon breakfasted today with the European Union's Javier Solana, expressing his satisfaction with the EU's call for the dismantling of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

The EU's statement of yesterday also called upon Israel to freeze settlement activity in Judea and Samaria. Sharon said that Israel is anxious to fulfill another EU request by easing some restrictions upon the Palestinian population, but "the unceasing terrorism makes this difficult."


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arafat; zinni
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 401-420421-440441-460461-469 next last
To: Sabramerican
And you must have never read a newspaper or been familiar with any sort of news media. They don't need to confirm the quote.

Bullcrap. Once again, we have a difference of opinion. We will have to see how events play out.

441 posted on 12/12/2001 8:40:18 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 439 | View Replies]

To: Sabramerican
Nonsense

Hardly.

Since we are reduced to one-word exchanges, I think it's time to end our little chat. You have your opinion, I have mine, so once again we shall see how events unfold - however, it seems like Hamas is trying to do their best today to end the peace talks, so it may all well be moot.

442 posted on 12/12/2001 8:42:29 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 440 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Bullcrap

I'll let the lurkers judge for themselves.

443 posted on 12/12/2001 8:43:11 AM PST by Sabramerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 441 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Yes I agree there is an implication in that quote. But that quote was a response to your comment in which you said "you guys". You can see, in the context of a thread like this one, how "you guys" can be misinterpreted to mean "you anti-American Israel firsters?".

I think it was a misunderstanding, and a jump to a conclusion. I don't think you hate Jews. I think you are just very interested in the events in the middle east. I am too.

444 posted on 12/12/2001 8:49:25 AM PST by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 435 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy; Sabramerican
RCW2001, veronica's nemesis, said he would have posted the article too. If RCW2001 had posted this article somehow I don't think we would be having this conversation.

260 posted on 12/11/01 3:06 PM Pacific by vrwc54

dirtboy writes: To me, the implication was quite clear.

veronica is a lightening rod which gave this thread impetus in the beginning, thus the personal attacks on her. If RCW2001 had posted it, it would have died 200 replies ago.

How can that be construed as accusing you of being anti-semitic? I read the heated exchange you and veronica had on the Debka thread, so you could have accused me of implying that you were anti-veronica and nothing else.

445 posted on 12/12/2001 9:05:35 AM PST by vrwc54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 435 | View Replies]

To: vrwc54
How can that be construed as accusing you of being anti-semitic? I read the heated exchange you and veronica had on the Debka thread, so you could have accused me of implying that you were anti-veronica and nothing else.

The implication that, if someone anti-Israeli had posted this, then I wouldn't be arguing with them. If you meant otherwise, then I stand corrected - but even monkeyshine said you could have been interpreted that way. A lot of nonsense and name-calling gets slung on any thread having to do with Israel, and veronica (and others) who have the temerity to equate Debka criticism with anti-semitism seriously degrade the tone of such threads - as do folks like Bold Fenian. I get tired of people thinking I have an agenda when all I ask for is that we try and practice some critical analysis of what we see reported and not succumb to the temptation to believe something because it fits with our worldview.

446 posted on 12/12/2001 9:11:10 AM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 445 | View Replies]

To: monkeyshine
I wouldn't go so far as to say that you can't trust an Israeli newspaper. What I'm objecting to is that there is no way for any of us to see for ourselves what those newspapers reported and how they reported it. That isn't the fault of anyone here; it's just a fact. All we have to examine is the statement of an editor who says he lifted those quotes from those papers.

I believe him, but that doesn't resolve my objection. If this is the extent of the information that we are going to be able to glean from Israeli sources, then I'm still puzzled as to why this isn't bigger news and being trumpeted in the Jerusalem Post or American newspapers. The quotes, if accurately portrayed, cut Arafat off at the knees and suggest that we no longer recognize him as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians. The lack of press coverage of that is incongruous with that.

447 posted on 12/12/2001 9:15:29 AM PST by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 421 | View Replies]

To: Dog Gone
The quote, IMHO, just doesn't go as far as you are saying it does. It does not cut him off at the knees. I read it at saying that he is making himself more irrelevant, and that dealing with others 'in conjunction' with Arafat may be more fruitful.... That dealing with Arafat alone is pointless because he alone cannot deliver. Hence, the others (Jabryl, Dahlan) will be given more prominence in the negotiations.
448 posted on 12/12/2001 9:23:02 AM PST by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 447 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
My comment to you was on #263. I said we wouldn't be having this conversation if RCW2001 had posted it because I meant that the thread would have died a long time ago.

I have to keep answering you because you told Sabramerican that my not responding to you was some kind of admission on my part. It wasn't.

449 posted on 12/12/2001 9:31:44 AM PST by vrwc54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 446 | View Replies]

To: vrwc54
Here's a tidbit from Debka dated today:

DEBKAfile’s military and Palestinian sources report that the third session of the trilateral security coordination that the US envoy chaired Tuesday evening ended in the same stalemate as the previous two. Zinni as usual handed Arafat a list of demands and Arafat with the same clockwork regularity turned them down.

Have any of you seen where Arafat was at that meeting? I thought he was meeting with the head of the EU, Solana.

And as an aside, this Debka snippet gave me a laugh:

Osama bin Laden has packed his entire family out of Afghanistan - wives, sons and daughters - and their wives, husbands and offspring. Roughly 10 days ago, DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources reveal, he transferred them to a prepared, well-guarded location in West Pakistan

I guess no one told Debka that East Pakistan became Bangladesh a few decades ago, so West Pakistan is now simply called Pakistan.

450 posted on 12/12/2001 3:06:36 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 449 | View Replies]

To: veronica; Sabramerican; Dog Gone; monkeyshine
please check post #450.
451 posted on 12/12/2001 3:09:33 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 450 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Zinni as usual handed Arafat

With the caveat that I have no opinion on Debka, they could be referencing the laws of agency. As long as Arafat is in charge others are simply acting as his agents.

I never heard of the country of West Pakistan. Could they we referring West(ern) Pakistan? Is English their native language?

452 posted on 12/12/2001 3:19:32 PM PST by Sabramerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 450 | View Replies]

To: Sabramerican
Well, first of all, I found this snippet here:

At a trilateral security meeting held yesterday evening in Jerusalem, Zinni repeated his demand for two days of calm. According to ynet, at a previous security meeting on Sunday, attended by Israel Security Agency head Avi Dichter and head of the IDF's Operations Directorate Major General Giora Eiland, and by Palestinian Preventive Security heads Jibril Rajoub and Mohammed Dahlan, the sides committed to 48 hours of quiet.

Granted, that was Sunday. But that was the second meeting, and I think Tuesday was a continuation of the first two meetings - and no sign of Arafat - so it definitely looks like he wasn't at that meeting with Zinni on Tuesday.

I can see your point - the language in the Debka article was vague as to whether Arafat was turning the demands down in person or later turned them down after the meeting was over.

453 posted on 12/12/2001 3:24:56 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 452 | View Replies]

To: vrwc54
People, people, people,

This quote from Zinni, if correct, has enormous implications. The importance of those implications is not affected one wit by the religious views of the poster. I defy anyone to guess my religious views, because I keep them out of these threads. But if it is true that a representative of the United States has said that the "leader" of a foreign "nation" is totally untrustworthy and cannot be dealt with, THAT is a sea change in US policy.

Congressman Billybob

454 posted on 12/12/2001 4:57:12 PM PST by Congressman Billybob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 445 | View Replies]

To: Congressman Billybob
Screw you pal, I could care less what your leanings are!!!

The edict by Israeli PM last week set the logic straight. If Arafat has any influence with Palestinians, then he's an accomplice. If he doesn't, he's irrelevant. So why talk with him.

This plainspeaking, irrefutable logic was not lost on our present leader and for good cause. Arafat expects to get "points" for closing down Hammas offices et al. What about the gutless bastards who go in and out of those premises each day? Why weren't they arrested? Hmmm?!?!?!?

455 posted on 12/12/2001 5:07:05 PM PST by t4texas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 454 | View Replies]

To: t4texas; Congressman Billybob; Dog Gone; Sabramerican; Bold Fenian
Guys, go see the other news. Israel has cut off all ties with Arafat. Reuters reports that Israel is going after Hamas and Islamic jihad personally to confiscate weapons and carry out arrests. Troops have been mobilized. Not a peep from our state department or Zinni about Israel's declaration yet... all indications, at this point, that the quote may indeed have been accurate.
456 posted on 12/12/2001 8:03:51 PM PST by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 455 | View Replies]

To: monkeyshine
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/589401/posts

...United States special envoy to the region, General Anthony Zinni, said that "Arafat and the Palestinian Authority must immediately act to arrest those responsible for the attacks and destroy the infrastructure of those terrorist groups supporting them. Co-existence and peace do not go hand in hand with terrorist organizations. The Palestinians must take actions against them immediately."

Ok diplomat speak interpreters... What do you make of this?

457 posted on 12/12/2001 8:11:16 PM PST by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 456 | View Replies]

To: monkeyshine
A cry in the darkness. Of course Zinni knows that Arafat has no power to do that, and if he tried, he would be killed. It may be part of the foreplay to build the diplomatic case that Israel had no choice.

What do you think of all the testosterone talk going around on FR that Israel should just annex the West Bank? Do you think Israel has any intention of trying to do that, and presumably doing the necessary corollary, driving the Palestinians out? Would you support such a policy?

458 posted on 12/12/2001 8:17:35 PM PST by Torie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 457 | View Replies]

To: Torie
I don't think they'll try that.. at least not right away and not completely. I think they will try to crush Hamas and Islamic Jihad and ignore Arafat. This may take some time and cause a lot of death.

Then, (my guess) they will probably try to give autonomy to a strong independent governor in Gaza. By splitting Gaza from the west bank rule (divide and conquer) they can neutralize 25% of the Palestinians from the equation. It also neutralizes some of their criticism. It also prevents a united Palestinian state. You may have 2 or 3 "mini-states", and some annexation of territory.

459 posted on 12/12/2001 10:27:14 PM PST by monkeyshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 458 | View Replies]

To: monkeyshine
all indications, at this point, that the quote may indeed have been accurate

No fair. We can't judge the quotes based on subsequent actions of the parties any longer. The Emanuel bus ambush is a watershed event which is going to affect, perhaps permanently, Arafat's role in this struggle. Zinni's comments are now somewhere between irrelevant and completely moot.

At this point, Israel has clearly given up on Arafat. I haven't seen the American position articulated yet, but I'm sure it won't contradict the Israeli position. At worst, it will adopt a wait-and-see position.

460 posted on 12/13/2001 4:37:19 AM PST by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 456 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 401-420421-440441-460461-469 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson