Posted on 12/11/2001 6:54:58 AM PST by veronica
American mediator Gen. Anthony Zinni, who met with Yasser Arafat yesterday, said about him, "I have never encountered such lack of trustworthiness in my life."
He said it was a "waste of time to try to reach a serious agreement with Arafat," and will concentrate on talking with other top figures in the PA - probably a reference to Muhammad Dahlan, Jibril Rajoub, and others.
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon breakfasted today with the European Union's Javier Solana, expressing his satisfaction with the EU's call for the dismantling of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
The EU's statement of yesterday also called upon Israel to freeze settlement activity in Judea and Samaria. Sharon said that Israel is anxious to fulfill another EU request by easing some restrictions upon the Palestinian population, but "the unceasing terrorism makes this difficult."
Bullcrap. Once again, we have a difference of opinion. We will have to see how events play out.
Hardly.
Since we are reduced to one-word exchanges, I think it's time to end our little chat. You have your opinion, I have mine, so once again we shall see how events unfold - however, it seems like Hamas is trying to do their best today to end the peace talks, so it may all well be moot.
I'll let the lurkers judge for themselves.
I think it was a misunderstanding, and a jump to a conclusion. I don't think you hate Jews. I think you are just very interested in the events in the middle east. I am too.
RCW2001, veronica's nemesis, said he would have posted the article too. If RCW2001 had posted this article somehow I don't think we would be having this conversation.260 posted on 12/11/01 3:06 PM Pacific by vrwc54
dirtboy writes: To me, the implication was quite clear.
veronica is a lightening rod which gave this thread impetus in the beginning, thus the personal attacks on her. If RCW2001 had posted it, it would have died 200 replies ago.
How can that be construed as accusing you of being anti-semitic? I read the heated exchange you and veronica had on the Debka thread, so you could have accused me of implying that you were anti-veronica and nothing else.
The implication that, if someone anti-Israeli had posted this, then I wouldn't be arguing with them. If you meant otherwise, then I stand corrected - but even monkeyshine said you could have been interpreted that way. A lot of nonsense and name-calling gets slung on any thread having to do with Israel, and veronica (and others) who have the temerity to equate Debka criticism with anti-semitism seriously degrade the tone of such threads - as do folks like Bold Fenian. I get tired of people thinking I have an agenda when all I ask for is that we try and practice some critical analysis of what we see reported and not succumb to the temptation to believe something because it fits with our worldview.
I believe him, but that doesn't resolve my objection. If this is the extent of the information that we are going to be able to glean from Israeli sources, then I'm still puzzled as to why this isn't bigger news and being trumpeted in the Jerusalem Post or American newspapers. The quotes, if accurately portrayed, cut Arafat off at the knees and suggest that we no longer recognize him as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians. The lack of press coverage of that is incongruous with that.
I have to keep answering you because you told Sabramerican that my not responding to you was some kind of admission on my part. It wasn't.
DEBKAfile’s military and Palestinian sources report that the third session of the trilateral security coordination that the US envoy chaired Tuesday evening ended in the same stalemate as the previous two. Zinni as usual handed Arafat a list of demands and Arafat with the same clockwork regularity turned them down.
Have any of you seen where Arafat was at that meeting? I thought he was meeting with the head of the EU, Solana.
And as an aside, this Debka snippet gave me a laugh:
Osama bin Laden has packed his entire family out of Afghanistan - wives, sons and daughters - and their wives, husbands and offspring. Roughly 10 days ago, DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources reveal, he transferred them to a prepared, well-guarded location in West Pakistan
I guess no one told Debka that East Pakistan became Bangladesh a few decades ago, so West Pakistan is now simply called Pakistan.
With the caveat that I have no opinion on Debka, they could be referencing the laws of agency. As long as Arafat is in charge others are simply acting as his agents.
I never heard of the country of West Pakistan. Could they we referring West(ern) Pakistan? Is English their native language?
At a trilateral security meeting held yesterday evening in Jerusalem, Zinni repeated his demand for two days of calm. According to ynet, at a previous security meeting on Sunday, attended by Israel Security Agency head Avi Dichter and head of the IDF's Operations Directorate Major General Giora Eiland, and by Palestinian Preventive Security heads Jibril Rajoub and Mohammed Dahlan, the sides committed to 48 hours of quiet.
Granted, that was Sunday. But that was the second meeting, and I think Tuesday was a continuation of the first two meetings - and no sign of Arafat - so it definitely looks like he wasn't at that meeting with Zinni on Tuesday.
I can see your point - the language in the Debka article was vague as to whether Arafat was turning the demands down in person or later turned them down after the meeting was over.
This quote from Zinni, if correct, has enormous implications. The importance of those implications is not affected one wit by the religious views of the poster. I defy anyone to guess my religious views, because I keep them out of these threads. But if it is true that a representative of the United States has said that the "leader" of a foreign "nation" is totally untrustworthy and cannot be dealt with, THAT is a sea change in US policy.
Congressman Billybob
The edict by Israeli PM last week set the logic straight. If Arafat has any influence with Palestinians, then he's an accomplice. If he doesn't, he's irrelevant. So why talk with him.
This plainspeaking, irrefutable logic was not lost on our present leader and for good cause. Arafat expects to get "points" for closing down Hammas offices et al. What about the gutless bastards who go in and out of those premises each day? Why weren't they arrested? Hmmm?!?!?!?
...United States special envoy to the region, General Anthony Zinni, said that "Arafat and the Palestinian Authority must immediately act to arrest those responsible for the attacks and destroy the infrastructure of those terrorist groups supporting them. Co-existence and peace do not go hand in hand with terrorist organizations. The Palestinians must take actions against them immediately."
Ok diplomat speak interpreters... What do you make of this?
What do you think of all the testosterone talk going around on FR that Israel should just annex the West Bank? Do you think Israel has any intention of trying to do that, and presumably doing the necessary corollary, driving the Palestinians out? Would you support such a policy?
Then, (my guess) they will probably try to give autonomy to a strong independent governor in Gaza. By splitting Gaza from the west bank rule (divide and conquer) they can neutralize 25% of the Palestinians from the equation. It also neutralizes some of their criticism. It also prevents a united Palestinian state. You may have 2 or 3 "mini-states", and some annexation of territory.
No fair. We can't judge the quotes based on subsequent actions of the parties any longer. The Emanuel bus ambush is a watershed event which is going to affect, perhaps permanently, Arafat's role in this struggle. Zinni's comments are now somewhere between irrelevant and completely moot.
At this point, Israel has clearly given up on Arafat. I haven't seen the American position articulated yet, but I'm sure it won't contradict the Israeli position. At worst, it will adopt a wait-and-see position.
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