After Sept. 11, a Rise in Gun Sales

I surely hope that Mr. Seltzer is not himself a physician, and if he is, I hope he applies better logic to his practice of medicine than he applies to his published missives.

His view of causation is akin to blaming illness on a bad case of the vapors.

Amazing that with over 200,000,000 firearms already owned by private individuals in the U.S. that a small spike in gun purchases could somehow cause an increase in the crime rate. (Asumming, for the sake of argument, that there is any statistically significant short term trend of a rise in crime that could not be adequately explained as simply part of a longer term shift.)

"Doctors Against Handgun Injury". Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius. I wonder if these doctors are for all other types of injuries. They may simply adore wounds from rifles and shotguns. For all we know these doctors may support a 1000% increase in knife injuries, so long as one life is saved from handgun injury. Or maybe I am looking at it the wrong way. Maybe they are for handgun deaths.

Heck, I wonder if there are really any doctors in this .org at all, or if it is just Seltzer, a credit card, a computer and a web-page?

bump

you know, they're hitting the gun issue on a lot of fronts. I have to think a coordinated campaign is starting up again.

Arrgh, I've got to start using a spell checker!

"Asumming", what was I thinking.

The same tired litany of refuted statistics. The same specious causal link. The same errant conclusions. The gun-grabbers are going to have to get some new material or not even soccer moms are going to keep listening.

By the way, Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius,. Translation?

they're hitting the gun issue on a lot of fronts. I have to think a coordinated campaign

Absolutely! Like a Greek Chorus warming up...

Sorry.

It means that the listing of one (or some) excludes all others.

It is generally used when interpreting statutes, especially criminal statutes, whereby anything that is not listed as prohibited is allowed.

--I have exactly the same thought. I'd bet anything that a campaign starts after the holidays that will make anything previous look small--starting with McCain trying to attach his "gun show loophole" bill to everything--

Mine is stored Loaded and Ready for immediate use four feet from where is am sitting right now.

I havn't seen the Doctors against Car Injury Forum to date but I should be starting up soon.

Fatigued with the "NRA vs. Soccer Moms" level of the current gun debate, our group, Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws has assembled lots of articles on gun control from the criminologic and public health literature on our site at http://www.dsgl.org/links.htm. If you are surprised that physicians are involved in the issue, you really ought to see the Kates' article from Tennessee Law Review (linked below). In case the links don't come through, I'll append one of the highlights at the end. Feel free to e-mail me for more of the links if this posting doesn't come through in "rich" (linked) text. For matters of Constitutionality, Halbrook's George Mason Univ. Law Review article is a good reference exposing some of the blatant mischaracterization of Second Amendment jurisprudence in the media's recent diatribe against Ashcroft. Also, the works of Stephen Halbrook, including the U.S. vs. Emerson briefing, are excellent and well-referenced, and many other Second Amendment scholars have published on this topic in the journal literature. On an international level, David Kopel has published extensive comparisons of gun laws versus crime rates and suicide rates, revealing that unlike what HCI has gotten the mainstream media to so uncritically parrot, U.S. "lax" gun laws do not correlate with increased crime and suicide. More importantly, as R.J. Rummel points out, genocide kills 5 to 10 times more innocents than criminal use of firearms, and Jay Simkin documents that genocides have always been preceded by the seemingly innocuous step of "gun registration." In the past 100 years, countries with strict gun control have had an average of well over 4,000 citizens per day murdered by their own police and military, and for all this carnage, there is no offsetting beneficial effect documented for gun control laws - in fact researcher John Lott has pointed out some compelling evidence that gun control laws may actually increase domestic crime rates, and Kopel's St. Louis Law Review article, Peril or Protection? - The Risks and Benefits of Handgun Prohibition supports that conclusion. As noted by Dr. Edgar Suter, in "Guns in the Medical Literature - a Failure of Peer Review" from the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia, and in a more in-depth presentation, Kates' (et al) "Guns and Public Health - Epidemic of Violence, or Pandemic of Propaganda?" article, from the Tennessee Law Review, there has been a striking lack of integrity in the "public health" literature on gun control, replete with distortion of data, flawed methodology, and when all else fails, complete fabrication of "facts." Many physician opponents of gun control are not concerned so much with the mere inconvenience to sportsmen which gun laws pose, but the clear and unnecessary danger in which they put ordinary citizens like our patients - as I explained in Medical Economics. As sincere patient advocates who are concerned for the public health, we cannot stand by and let uninformed but well-intended individuals dangerously misdirect public policy, even when a naive public wonders why we won't be "reasonable" or "compromise" (which the sportsmen's lobby often does, since they are mostly just concerned with minimizing impact on firearms hobbies). Why not compromise? - the events of the First Million Mom's March didn't turn out so well, and it wouldn't have been possible without the "reasonable" step of merely registering guns. Andrew Johnstone, RPh/MD Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws Here's my favorite of all medical/gun quotes, from Kates et al: ...one of the most refreshing things I've ever read in a law journal...! (the complete HTML page is http://www.2ndlawlib.com/journals/tennmed.html) - - - note - on the above page all citations [123] are listed or linked - - - XIII. A Critique of Overt Mendacity A 1989 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association approvingly quoted a CDC official's assertion that his work for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention involved "systematically build[ing]a case that owning firearms causes death."[258] The CDC official later claimed that JAMA had misquoted him and offered the only repudiation of the anti-gun political agenda we have found in a health advocacy publication, characterizing it as "anathema to any unbiased scientific inquiry because it assumes the conclusion at the outset and then attempts to find evidence to support it."[259] Unfortunately, that is precisely what CDC is doing. Indeed, this has subsequently been avowed by the prior official's successor.[260] Even more unfortunately, CDC and other health advocate sages build their case not only by suppressing facts, but by overt fraud, fabricating statistics, and falsifying references to support them.[261] The following are but a few of the many examples documented in a recent paper co-authored by professors at Columbia Medical School and Rutgers University Law School. The first instance represents a lamentable exception to our generalization that comparisons of gun ownership and murder rates through the 1970s and 1980s find no place in the health advocacy literature.[262] Some health sages go so far as to overtly misrepresent that murder rates increased over that period, and then correlate this misrepresentation with the same period's steadily increasing gun ownership so as to lend spurious support to their more-guns-mean-more-murder shibboleth. Thus, a 1989 Report to the United States Congress by the CDC stated that "[s]ince the early 1970s the year-to-year fluctuations in firearm availability has [sic] paralleled the numbers of homicides."[263] We leave it to the readers of (p.577)this Article to judge how a 69% increase in handgun ownership over the fifteen year period from 1974 to 1988 could honestly be described as having "paralleled" a 14.2% decrease in homicide during that same period.[264] Understandably, the CDC Report offered no supporting reference for its claim of parallelism. However, the inventive Dr. Diane Schetky, and two equally inventive CDC writers--Gordon Smith and Henry Falk--in a separate article actually do provide purportedly supporting citations for the claim that "[h]andguns account for only 20% of the firearms in use today, but they are involved in the majority of both criminal and unintentional firearm injuries."[265] The problems with this claim are that the claim is false in every respect and that the citations are fabrications. The purpose of the claim is to exaggerate the comparative risks of handguns vis-a-vis long guns so as to fortify the cause of handgun prohibition and avoid admitting the major problem we have already addressed--that, because handguns are innately far safer than long guns, if a handgun ban caused defensive gun owners to keep loaded long guns instead (as handgun ban advocates and experts concur would be the case), thousands more might die in fatal gun accidents annually.[266] The only citation given by either Schetky or Smith and Falk to support their claim that handguns comprise only 20% of all guns, yet are involved in 90% of gun accidents and crime, is the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.[267] Understandably, no page citations are given, because the citations are simply falsified. As anyone familiar with the Uniform Crime Reports knows, they provide no data on gun ownership, and thus no comparative data on handgun versus long gun ownership. Nor do the Uniform Crime Reports provide data on accidents in general, thus no data on gun accidents, and thus no comparative data on the incidence of handgun accidents versus long guns accidents. Schetky, Smith, and Falk could have found data on these matters in the National Safety Council's Accident Facts, but those data would not have suited their purpose because these statistics do not support the point they sought to make.(p.578) Furthermore, the Uniform Crime Reports give no data on the number of persons injured in gun crimes or the number of such injures in handgun crimes versus long gun crimes. They do give such data for gun murders, but even those data do not support Schetky's claim that 90% are committed with handguns.[268] Every one of the other purported statistics given by Schetky, Smith, and Falk is not only wrong, but wrong in only one particular direction. Each false statistic errs in supporting their point, whereas an accurate rendition of the statistic would not have done so. It is, of course, elementary that innocent mistakes tend to be random and to balance each other rather than all erring in favor of the position for which they are presented. Another instance of overt mendacity involves the remarkable Dr. Sloan. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, we classified other mischaracterizations by him as gun-aversive-dyslexia. It strains even that generous category, however, to so classify an inability to accurately read and describe one's own articles. The gravamen of the Sloan two-city comparison discussed previously was that the strict 1978 Canadian gun law caused Vancouver to have less homicide than Seattle, where any responsible adult can buy a handgun.[269] But as an NRA representative pointed out in a critical letter to the New England Journal of Medicine, the authors had made no effort to determine how Canadian homicide had changed since adopting the law.[270] In fact, the homicide rate had not fallen, but rather it had risen slightly, with handgun use unchanged at about one-eighth of homicides. Sloan tried to extricate himself from this embarrassment by mendaciously asserting that the "intent of our article was not to evaluate the effect of the 1978 Canadian gun law."[271] Readers may judge for themselves how well that squares with the article's actual conclusion: "[R]estriction of access to firearms ... is associated with lower rates of homicide."[272] Health advocate readers have certainly understood the significance of the article to be that it "demonstrated the beneficial effect of [Canada's] tighter regulation" of firearms.[273] It is misleading to suggest that, heavily politicized though it is, the anti-gun health advocacy literature commonly exhibits overt mendacity, as opposed to fraudulent misleading by half-truth and suppression of material facts. Overt (p.579)mendacity is not infrequent, however, and numerous examples will be documented in the next section and in the balance of this Article. *************************************************************************

Your lack of knowledge on firearms, the Constitution, and statistics may be exceeded by your lack of knowledge of HTML.

Good Doctor, It is impossible to read your post and derive a conclusion of what you desire.

I disagree with the very concept of "sensible gun laws." There is only one and it is found in the BOR of the Constitution. Now if you want to pass another few thousand laws against murder, assault, and other criminal acts, please feel free to lobby for them. One more law will definitely cure the crime problem. </sarcasm>

Until you learn html procedures, use this link to your statement. DOCTORS FOR SENSIBLE GUN LAWS

Never post a link without verifying that it is working. Such as this one. http://www.2ndlawlib.com/journals/tennmed.html It decreases your statement substantially.

Glock 23, .40 caliber

10+1 in the chamber

Safety?? Glocks don't need no stinkin' safety, when my finger is not on the trigger, it's safe.

These idiot doctors may want to devote more of their energies to the psychoactive drugs they are prescribing, of course as long as they twist peoples minds with drugs, they'll have plenty of wacko shootings to discuss.

The big argument for gun control (aka registration aka consfication) will be along the lines of: "We need to keep terrorists from buying guns. We're at war. We must protect the children. The Constitution isn't a suicide pact."

The failure of people to object to the irrelevancing of the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Tenth, amemdments (inter alia) will allow the Second to be more easily evaded.

I wonder how Herr Doktor Putzley and His Royal Ilk would feel if each time hey trotted out their bovina fecundis "facts" and "statistics", they were met with the documented statistics on the staggering number of deaths and injuries due to iatrogenic causes?

Perhaps it's time to meet smoke and mirrors with fire. And I can't think of a hotter flame than that which wraps itself around the sheer number of coffins populated due to medical clusterf'ks.