Genetic Survey Reveals Hidden Celts Of England

The Sunday Times (UK) ^ | 12-02-2001 | John Elliott/Tom Robbins

[blam]

"I once read a reference to an expedition in the late 1600s wherein a welshman was able to communicate with a group of Noth American Indians in his native speech. I've never been able to find out more about it, but I found that to be fascinating."

There is a plaque here at the mouth of Mobile Bay commerating the visit of a Welsh prince in 1170AD.( I cannot remember his name presently) He is reported to have migrated inland up the water ways of Alabama into Tennessee (There is some supporting ruins there) and on into the heartland, this is supposedly the source of the Welsh language speakers that you cite. (I'll think of the name of the Welsh prince today.)

[blam]

(found it,http://www.madoc1170.com/home.htm)

Welcome and Croeso to the Website.

My name is Howard Kimberley and I was born in Maesteg, Glamorgan, South Wales, in 1944. I am a former Engineer who spent many years in Technical Research and Development, and Project Management. Since 1987, I have worked as a Business Consultant assisting the formation and development of small businesses. I have a science degree with certificates in accounting and marketing as well as a qualification in business planning. I am not a professional or even a trained historian, but a down-to-earth engineer and business advisor, so my approach to historical research may be somewhat radical.

Howard Kimberley

The story of MADOC, a Welsh prince, who is reputed to have discovered America in 1170, over 300 years before Columbus, has fascinated me for many years.

It is said that he sailed across the Atlantic Ocean from Wales, a small country on the western side of the British mainland, which together with Ireland, Scotland and England, make up the British Isles.
Many believe that he and his followers initially settled in the Georgia/Tennessee/ Kentucky area, eventually moving to the Upper Missouri, where they were assimilated into a tribe of the Mandans. New evidence is also emerging about a small band of MADOC's followers who remained in the Ohio area and are called 'White Madoc'.

Numerous people, on both sides of the Atlantic, have researched the story over the years. Such a subject is bound to have its sceptics, and what I have set out to achieve with this site is to establish the truth about Prince MADOC, by presenting both sides of the argument. The more I study the subject and contemplate the implications, the stronger the fascination becomes, so much so, in fact, that I am now in the process of setting up a trust which will undertake further research, and a company which will support and promote the trust.

So read on, consider the arguments, have your say, and join me in the fascinating quest for the truth about MADOC, a prince who lived over 800 years ago, and the link between a tiny kingdom in Wales, and the mighty continent of North America.

To quote that famous Welsh Politician, Aneurin Bevan,
"This Is My Truth - Tell Me Yours"

[LN2Campy]

Thanks for the link!

[blam]

Over here.

[RightWhale]

if it's related to any languages elsewhere in the world

I don't know, but I heard that Finnish and possibly Hungarian [Magyar] are related to Basque.

[RightWhale]

This is personally interesting since we have stories in the family dating back to AD 900 when they were in southwest England in the Southampton region. That's when they arrived, by boat. Don't know where they arrived from, but some of the family thinks Belgium.

[crystalk]

Allegations have been fairly widely published that the Basque language is related to American Indian tongues, especially the Shoshone and their close sub-tribes in Wyoming and Idaho. If so, Basques may represent a very early transatlantic migration-in-reverse.

[Interesting Times]

NO it wouldn't. For the Y chromosome to have survived, it's the MEN of the Celts that had to keep breeding. You couldn't take their wives without your invading Y chromosome showing up. Perhaps as the Anglo-Saxons invaded they had their wives impregnated by the Celtic men before they cut their heads off? (sarcasm /off)

I stand corrected.

(note to self: coffee first, then post...)

[Cacique]

RE: the relationship of the Celts, Basques etc.

You might be interested in the following site.

http://www.angelfire.com/country/veneti/JandacekArkoBasques.html

You may also find this site interesting as well. For a little bit of a challenge to "mainstream" history.

http://www.angelfire.com/country/veneti/

Also

http://www.dangel.net/JimsHomePageFolder/Veneti.html

It makes for interesting reading..

[blam]

"This is personally interesting since we have stories in the family dating back to AD 900 when they were in southwest England in the Southampton region. That's when they arrived, by boat. Don't know where they arrived from, but some of the family thinks Belgium."

Are you kidding? You can trace your family back that far?

[blam]

"Allegations have been fairly widely published that the Basque language is related to American Indian tongues, especially the Shoshone and their close sub-tribes in Wyoming and Idaho. If so, Basques may represent a very early transatlantic migration-in-reverse"

Interesting idea. What leads you to suspect a 'migration-in-reverse'? (I have some ideas along that line too but, little evidence)

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Julius Caesar's diaries recount that the "Gauls" had ships that were driven entirely by sails, without oars. The ships decks stood so high out of the water, that the Roman archers in the triremes couldn't hit the Gaulish sailors with their arrows.

The Romans were forced to throw grappling hooks into the Gauls ships' rigging to pull themselves alongside and storm the ships with seige ladders as if storming a walled fortification. Then the Romans slaughtered the Gauls and sunk their ships, ending whatever commerce or travleing they were engaged in.

Caesar made no comment about whether the Gauls carried national ID cards.

[blam]

FYI.

[BluH2o]

Only 10% of those tested in Wales were of Anglo-Saxon origin, confirming that it has retained an almost exclusively Celtic population.

Being of mostly Celtic heritage probably explains my good looks. ;)

[BluH2o]

The Basque language (and to a large degree their DNA) is unlike all other Indo-European languages.

Isn't the French Basque dialect very similar to the Welsh dialect? Read this sometime ago ...

[RightWhale]

trace your family back that far?

Sure, some of it. The branch that carried the current family name, anyway, but not all the lines that married in and changed their name. It's filled in a lot better after 1650.

[ladyjane]

direct descendant

I don't understand the difference between a direct descendent versus an indirect descendent.

[arthurus]

I cannot remember his name presently)

Madoc

[arthurus]

Isn't the French Basque dialect very similar

No.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

AYE what would you do without your FREEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMMM?