VANITY - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, what solution would YOU propose?

Just Me

[Republican Party Reptile]

I'm asking the question looking for replies and discourse that (hopefully) can raise above suggesting wiping one side or the other off the face of the earth, locking people up in a police state, or expelling either side from the land they occupy today (where would they go? and how would that really solve the problem other then pushing the problem somewhere else?).

What do you think is a viable long term solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and how would one go about making it happen?

As someone who is not of Judeo-Christian-Islamist cultural/religion background, I don't have an religious or idealogical dog in the fight. I have heard and read about the grievences and claims and counter-claims from both sides, while I sympathize, I'll admit that the grievences are not personal to me. I have spent a lot of time in both Israel and Arab nations due to work. I got along and liked the people I came in contact with in Israel and in the Arab states. I think the state of Israel has a right to a secured and peaceful existence, and I think the same for a Palestinian state. But I don't profess to have any idea how this can be realistically accomplished.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

I thought about that after my post. I know God is actually bringing a sort of revival (salvation through the Messiah) to many Palestinians. Hopefully they will be excluded.

[BrooklynGOP]

There is a serious dispute as to whether the "67 war was in fact a defensive war on Israel's part. Certain scholars suspect Israel wanted it so it could justify their expansionist agenda.

Let me give you a little history. In mid may of 1967 Egyptians and Syrians massed troops on Israeli borders. May 16th, Nasser ordered> the UN Emergency Force to withdraw (Secretary of UN complied without even bringing this matter to the attention of General Assembly!!!). On May 18th Voice of Arabs proclaims:

As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence

On May 20th Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad:

Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation

And finally Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran which blockaded Israel and in fact violated the Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958 which in itself is a declaration of war... Blah blah blah.. What's your argument?

[Centurion2000]

I hope you're not Jewish, but if you are you have no right to complain about the Nazi's in light of your last genocidal statement. BTW, let's leave the U.S. out of it altogether.

So tell me how many hundreds of Jewish suicide bombers there have been. How many times have they vowed to bring the world under their rule ? How many times have they shot/burned/gassed/hund/decapitated their own in a soccer stadium for some of that for God's sake???

GET a grip on reality. Jews may have their flaws but it doesn't include the character flaw of self-detonation with nail studded explosives.

Some people need killing ... the Palstinian population has just risen to that level.

[sheik yerbouty]

I don't think Abdullah wants a horde of potential assasins.

[sheik yerbouty]

Antarctica. lots of land.

[Magician]

There were more Jewish refugees from Arab countries than Arab refugees from Israel. It was an exchange of populations.

After 53 years, there is no going back. No one is a "refugee" for 53 years.

[SJackson]

Jordan consists of 2/3 of the land mass of the "Palestine" mandate.

When you mention the mandate, you must remember that Trans-Jordan, the 2/3 you speak of, was in fact part of the Jewish National Homeland.

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

I agree. With a mosque or a Temple on the mount, the other side will always object and wage war.

[BrooklynGOP]

I agree. With a mosque or a Temple on the mount, the other side will always object and wage war

Easy, build a temple in Mecca & Medina and claim it :)

[Magician]

The Ottomans were the most corrupt rulers in history - atleast until Arafat and the Palestinian authority came along.

[Fred25]

I say "so-called Palestinians" because, let's face it, nobody, Arab or otherwise, was talking about a Palestinian "people" or "nation" during the 19 years between Israeli Independence and the Six Day Wa[r].

If they spoke Arabic, they were called “Palestinian Arabs”. Jews who lived in Palestine were called “Palestinian Jews”. Christians were called “Palestinian Christians”. Now, Palestinian Arabs and Christians are just called “Palestinians”.

Here is an outline of the population of Palestine in 1921.....

1921 BRITISH REPORT

”The country is under-populated because of this lack of development. There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.

Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.”

“The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.”

Pre-1948 American encyclopedia map of Palestine.....

[SJackson]

There are decent Palestinian Arabs who do not support terrorism, and they are the forgotten ones, who have no say.

Perhaps, but their voices are not heard. They need to take control. They need to oust Arafat.

[SJackson]

"Pre-1948 American encyclopedia map of Palestine..... "

Uh Fred, pre 48 Palestine refered to the Jewish homeland. Are you agreeing that you map represents the natural boundries of Israel?

[Non-Sequitur]

This worked out, more or less, between the Hindus of India and the Moslems of Pakistan.

More or less? The partition of India and Pakistan left hundreds of thousands dead, millions uprooted, and two bitter enemies with nuclear weapons and itchy trigger fingers. That is your idea of success?

[wtc911]

Exterminate the Palestinians....let me see...how do you suggest we handle the millions of mothers and children, kill them all at once or separate them by age. Or, do we just kill the men? It's a big job. Can't use the bomb, radiation would drift over those we think have the right to live. It would take too long to round them all up and shoot them, besides that was tried before by another group and the psychological effects on the shooters proved devastating. I guess you can put only so many bullets into so many little kids before it starts to get to you.

What a problem. If only we had some kind of reference book, some guide, some blueprint we could study...

Hey, I found something we could use. These neat Europeans worked it out in the last century. They even gave it a cool name...Final Solution...but I'm sure you already know all about it...

How about we put you in charge...you can start small, say just pregnant women....think you could handle it?

I'm sure you can.

[Fred25]

Uh Fred, pre 48 Palestine refered to the Jewish homeland.

I think you misread the British report. It said “Holy Land”, not "homeland".

[Fred25]

Here are some interesting “Orientalist” paintings from the late 19th Century. These show the different races in the Middle East during that era. After you’ve finished looking at the paintings on this page, go to the bottom and look at the other pages.

http://www.orientalistart.net/Page2.html

[LS]

I said from ANY point of view. Guess you pro-Palestinian types can't read. But I'll spell it out: from the standpoint of historical claim, the so-called Palestinians "claimed" the land sometime after 1920. The Jews had claim on it since 4,000 B.C.

From the standpoint of "world opinion," it was "world opinion," in the form of a UN VOTE that created the state of Israel.

From the standpoint of "dispossessed people," it was the ARABS in 1947 who instructed all "palestinian people" to LEAVE because the ARABS were going to "exterminate" (their word, not mine) anyone in their path. The Jews begged the local Arab population to stay. You might want to actually read something on this, including the minutes of the Arab council in Jerusalem, which voted to leave anyway, convinced the Arab armies would crush the Jews.

From the standpoint of balance of power politics, ONLY Israel has a democracy in the Middle East, and ONLY Israel recognizes ANY form of "human rights." You can say they don't respect the "human rights" of the Pales, but SOME "human rights" recognition is better than what you get in any Arab country.

Finally, from the standpoint of common sense, only one side can win this. If you have two people whose life essence is tied to the same land, they cannot, and will not, give it up. One must win. What is so hard to understand about that?

[SJackson]

I think you misread the British report. It said “Holy Land”, not "homeland".

Naaaaaaaaaaaaah.

The Balfour Declaration is pretty short and sweet.

""His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Palestine, of course, refered to what is now Israel and Jordan and the Brits did say (in the White Paper)that "...They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.'" That's why they carved our Trans-Jordan for the Arab population (today's Palestinians). Your map doesn't show all of "Palestine", just what Israel (then refered to as Palestine) was left with. Later, the UN officially partitioned "Palestine".

Fred, do you realize if the Arabs had or would only accept the right of Israel to exist, we'd have nothing to talk about?

[a_Turk]

The Ottomans were the most corrupt rulers in history

True only during its decline. Why were they more corrupt than, say, the French aristocracy during it's decline?