Posted on 12/02/2001 8:50:01 AM PST by H.Akston
Bob Barr just said on Sam and Cokie's show that the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, and the Constitution covers "persons", not just citizens, and "the Bill of Rights applies to all persons on our soil."
You have to be a lawyer to understand the Constitution that begins with We the People, and not We the Lawyers? You're a smug one aren't you. Are you one of those OJ defenders?
The government can DO THINGS (like kick out Chinese Reporters) to people who are not protected by the Bill of Rights, and those things can violate rights that would otherwise be protected. Not Everyone on US Soil is protected by the Bill of Rights. Barr incorrectly said they were.
GOT IT???
Meaning that they would not, from their previous rulings, claim jurisdiction to review the trial.
If the executive wanted to try a resident alien, or a citizen even, in a military trial they could; BUT they would have to prove to the court that he was subject to the law of war instead of the civil law IMO.
That actually gives a good reason not to declare war. We are not at war against Afghanistan. We have been at war with a rebellious faction in it, albeit one that had control of the majority of the territory.
To: exodus
The rights are not signed away, lepton.
They are temporarily put aside, in the name of duty.
"Yes, which is why you can be prosecuted in a military court, but not a civilian one."
# 305 by lepton
************
Actually, a soldier can be tried in civilian court
for a crime committed outside of his military life.
A+bert actually led me to this: No, we didn't but it was understood to be an official war nonetheless, and Congress specifically authorized monies to fight the war. As example, see the war history of the USS Constitution. The battles she fought against the French in the Quasi-war were considered analogous to police Actions. The battles against the Barbary Pirates, part of official War.
Date: circa 1645
: incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred
I bet you don't understand what "covered" means.
When someone is "covered" by the Bill of Rights, that means that the Bill of Rights protects them from the government. There now. does little aj understand?
Look at a map of the world. Now, you see that ocean near the middle? To the west of it, you'll see a sort of longish strip of land, going north-south. It gets really thin in the middle. Now, look at the part of it north of the thin part. About in the middle part of that, you should see a whole lot of little areas with all different colors. Just to make sure you're looking at the right place, there should be a big area right above it all in one color; that's a place called Canada. Each area with its own color is what we call a state. All of the states together are called the United States, and it's all one country even though it's got lots of colors. There are two other parts to this country, but I won't confuse you by telling you where they are. The answer to your question is, everyone inside that area.
Where do you get off having our government protecting the free speech and liberty of illegals who are on our soil?
We should be exact here: the Constitution says Congress can't violate those things.
Statists of course always have to twist the meanings of words, and the meaning of the constitution.
To: exodus
Ask for a Declaration of War against Afganistan,
the nation that attacked us,
"That actually gives a good reason not to declare war.
We are not at war against Afghanistan.
We have been at war with a rebellious faction in it,
albeit one that had control of the majority of the territory."
# 383 by lepton
************
The Talaban are not a "rebellious faction,"
you're thinking of the Northern alliance,
the rebels against the official government of Afganistan.
So if we're attacked by Mexico,
we shouldn't declare war on the nation of Mexico,
because we were only attacked by the people in control of Mexico's government?
How can you not get this by now? The "people" who created the Constitution are "of the United States", and not "of some other country." How hard can this be?
I can just see you trying to tell a police officer that since you didn't put a stop sign up, it doesn't "cover" you.
Now gee whiz. I thought "everyone" included Chinese reporters. I guess they wanted to cheer AND leave the country with a boot on their ass. There's either something wrong with your definition of "everyone" or something wrong with what Bob Barr said.
excerpt from "The Federalist Papers" #41 written by James Madison
"The Federalist Papers" were written by our Founding Fathers and explain many of their thoughts regarding the US Constitution.
You would do well to read them. The above quote is one of many like it. It is obvious that the Founding Fathers couldn't even fathom the idea of going to war against an enemy who attacked America without Congress making a formal war declaration.
The US (as well as pretty much every other country in the world) has always recognized the Northern Alliance as the official government of Afghanistan. They are NOT the ones we are at war with.
Indeed.
Now the phrase "the people", as it appears in the 9th and 10th amendments, may be construed without complete injustice to mean citizens alone. However, the fact that the government is explicitly prohibited from a narrow construction of the rights of "the people" does not imply that the government may narrowly interpret the rights of "not the people".
This is precisely the kind fallacious reasoning against which Hamilton warned.
That's not what the trials are for. Despite how people are reading what the M.O. says, those charged could still file a claim that they are not subject to the Military Tribunals by virtue of some law, as the German men during WWII did, and have standing otherwise, which claim would be addressed by the appropriate court. The trials are to determine if war-crimes were committed. War-crimes, like committing or being part of espionage and Acts of War without being in uniform.
Very slick but, all it says is that Congress must be invested with the power to declare war and that that power is required for the defense of the country. Nice try at word smithing though.
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