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Who does the Bill of Rights cover?
This Week | 2 Dec 01 | Bob Barr

Posted on 12/02/2001 8:50:01 AM PST by H.Akston

Bob Barr just said on Sam and Cokie's show that the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitution, and the Constitution covers "persons", not just citizens, and "the Bill of Rights applies to all persons on our soil."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: billofrights
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To: backup
"It's so amusing to see armchair attorneys make public fools of themselves."

You have to be a lawyer to understand the Constitution that begins with We the People, and not We the Lawyers? You're a smug one aren't you. Are you one of those OJ defenders?

The government can DO THINGS (like kick out Chinese Reporters) to people who are not protected by the Bill of Rights, and those things can violate rights that would otherwise be protected. Not Everyone on US Soil is protected by the Bill of Rights. Barr incorrectly said they were.

GOT IT???

381 posted on 12/02/2001 5:52:22 PM PST by H.Akston
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To: Sandy
"he could have excepted only "resident aliens who also have long established ties in America" and been within Supreme Court rulings. "

Meaning that they would not, from their previous rulings, claim jurisdiction to review the trial.

If the executive wanted to try a resident alien, or a citizen even, in a military trial they could; BUT they would have to prove to the court that he was subject to the law of war instead of the civil law IMO.

382 posted on 12/02/2001 5:52:34 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: exodus
Ask for a Declaration of War against Afganistan, the nation that attacked us,

That actually gives a good reason not to declare war. We are not at war against Afghanistan. We have been at war with a rebellious faction in it, albeit one that had control of the majority of the territory.

383 posted on 12/02/2001 5:52:50 PM PST by lepton
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To: lepton
The (soldiers) rights are not signed away, lepton.
They are temporarily put aside, in the name of duty.
The military is a part of our government that is allowed to infringe upon it's members rights to promote necessary discipline. Someone who doesn't obey orders is a danger to himself and others.
That obedience to orders isn't expected of ordinary citizens.
Just as in time of war or national emergency the rights of ordinary citizens would be infringed temporarily, so a soldier accepts temporary curtailment of his rights to fulfill his duty.
# 303 by exodus
*******************

To: exodus
The rights are not signed away, lepton.
They are temporarily put aside, in the name of duty.


"Yes, which is why you can be prosecuted in a military court, but not a civilian one."
# 305 by lepton

************

Actually, a soldier can be tried in civilian court
for a crime committed outside of his military life.

384 posted on 12/02/2001 5:53:56 PM PST by exodus
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To: schmelvin
Congress declared war on the Barbary Pirates. They were not a nation. They were very similar to modern terrorists.

A+bert actually led me to this: No, we didn't but it was understood to be an official war nonetheless, and Congress specifically authorized monies to fight the war. As example, see the war history of the USS Constitution. The battles she fought against the French in the Quasi-war were considered analogous to police Actions. The battles against the Barbary Pirates, part of official War.

385 posted on 12/02/2001 5:55:36 PM PST by lepton
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To: sneakypete
Main Entry: in·alien·able

Date: circa 1645
: incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred

386 posted on 12/02/2001 5:57:55 PM PST by lepton
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To: Wissa
#337: Even a condom has a breaking point-The protective condom for human rights (our Constitution) has been stretched to cover every pr*ck on earth but at last has ruptured. The pr*cks of terrorism have sired their very own Lorena Bobbit. You go girl!
387 posted on 12/02/2001 5:58:00 PM PST by F.J. Mitchell
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To: A.J.Armitage
I knew I used words that were too big.

I bet you don't understand what "covered" means.

When someone is "covered" by the Bill of Rights, that means that the Bill of Rights protects them from the government. There now. does little aj understand?

388 posted on 12/02/2001 5:58:25 PM PST by H.Akston
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To: Polybius
Civil court or military court--really makes no difference to me. Bottom line is, this is the equivalent of declaring a person guilty of murder (without trial) and then sending him straight to his sentencing hearing, imo.
389 posted on 12/02/2001 5:58:26 PM PST by Sandy
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To: H.Akston
So who is and isn't "under the government"?

Look at a map of the world. Now, you see that ocean near the middle? To the west of it, you'll see a sort of longish strip of land, going north-south. It gets really thin in the middle. Now, look at the part of it north of the thin part. About in the middle part of that, you should see a whole lot of little areas with all different colors. Just to make sure you're looking at the right place, there should be a big area right above it all in one color; that's a place called Canada. Each area with its own color is what we call a state. All of the states together are called the United States, and it's all one country even though it's got lots of colors. There are two other parts to this country, but I won't confuse you by telling you where they are. The answer to your question is, everyone inside that area.

Where do you get off having our government protecting the free speech and liberty of illegals who are on our soil?

We should be exact here: the Constitution says Congress can't violate those things.

390 posted on 12/02/2001 5:59:55 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: backup
It's so amusing to see armchair attorneys make public fools of themselves.
391 posted on 12/02/2001 6:00:57 PM PST by H.Akston
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To: tex-oma
Man, it's amazing how many people can't read. The framers were perfectly familiar with the word "citizen" -- and used it or "citizens" mulitple times in the constitution, as distinct from "person".

Statists of course always have to twist the meanings of words, and the meaning of the constitution.

392 posted on 12/02/2001 6:01:01 PM PST by Tauzero
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To: lepton
How about it, Mr. President?
Don't violate the Constitution, use it.
Ask for a Declaration of War against Afganistan,
the nation that attacked us,
and add a Declaration of War against Iraq,
whose leader considers us his enemy.
Play along with Hussain.
Declare war on him, it would make his day.

(Expletive deleted) peace.
I want a Declaration of War against terrorist nations.
# 333 by exodus
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To: exodus
Ask for a Declaration of War against Afganistan,
the nation that attacked us,


"That actually gives a good reason not to declare war.
We are not at war against Afghanistan.
We have been at war with a rebellious faction in it,
albeit one that had control of the majority of the territory."
# 383 by lepton

************

The Talaban are not a "rebellious faction,"
you're thinking of the Northern alliance,
the rebels against the official government of Afganistan.

So if we're attacked by Mexico,
we shouldn't declare war on the nation of Mexico,
because we were only attacked by the people in control of Mexico's government?

393 posted on 12/02/2001 6:03:16 PM PST by exodus
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To: H.Akston
The "People" protected by the Bill of Rights are "Of the United States", and not "Of Some Other Country".

How can you not get this by now? The "people" who created the Constitution are "of the United States", and not "of some other country." How hard can this be?

I can just see you trying to tell a police officer that since you didn't put a stop sign up, it doesn't "cover" you.

394 posted on 12/02/2001 6:04:04 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
"There are two other parts to this country, but I won't confuse you by telling you where they are. The answer to your question is, everyone inside that area."

Now gee whiz. I thought "everyone" included Chinese reporters. I guess they wanted to cheer AND leave the country with a boot on their ass. There's either something wrong with your definition of "everyone" or something wrong with what Bob Barr said.

395 posted on 12/02/2001 6:04:35 PM PST by H.Akston
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To: jwalsh07
"The powers falling within the FIRST class are those of declaring war and granting letters of marque; of providing armies and fleets; of regulating and calling forth the militia; of levying and borrowing money. Security against foreign danger is one of the primitive objects of civil society. It is an avowed and essential object of the American Union. The powers requisite for attaining it must be effectually confided to the federal councils. Is the power of declaring war necessary? No man will answer this question in the negative."

excerpt from "The Federalist Papers" #41 written by James Madison

"The Federalist Papers" were written by our Founding Fathers and explain many of their thoughts regarding the US Constitution.

You would do well to read them. The above quote is one of many like it. It is obvious that the Founding Fathers couldn't even fathom the idea of going to war against an enemy who attacked America without Congress making a formal war declaration.

396 posted on 12/02/2001 6:05:48 PM PST by schmelvin
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To: exodus
The Talaban are not a "rebellious faction," you're thinking of the Northern alliance, the rebels against the official government of Afganistan.

The US (as well as pretty much every other country in the world) has always recognized the Northern Alliance as the official government of Afghanistan. They are NOT the ones we are at war with.

397 posted on 12/02/2001 6:06:57 PM PST by Wissa
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To: A.J.Armitage
"We should be exact here: the Constitution says Congress can't violate those things."

Indeed.

Now the phrase "the people", as it appears in the 9th and 10th amendments, may be construed without complete injustice to mean citizens alone. However, the fact that the government is explicitly prohibited from a narrow construction of the rights of "the people" does not imply that the government may narrowly interpret the rights of "not the people".

This is precisely the kind fallacious reasoning against which Hamilton warned.

398 posted on 12/02/2001 6:07:15 PM PST by Tauzero
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To: Sandy
If we're determining in advance that Joe Resident Alien is indeed a combatant, then why bother with a trial at all? What would be the point in having a trial for someone whom we've already declared guilty?

That's not what the trials are for. Despite how people are reading what the M.O. says, those charged could still file a claim that they are not subject to the Military Tribunals by virtue of some law, as the German men during WWII did, and have standing otherwise, which claim would be addressed by the appropriate court. The trials are to determine if war-crimes were committed. War-crimes, like committing or being part of espionage and Acts of War without being in uniform.

399 posted on 12/02/2001 6:07:35 PM PST by lepton
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To: schmelvin
Is the power of declaring war necessary? No man will answer this question in the negative."

Very slick but, all it says is that Congress must be invested with the power to declare war and that that power is required for the defense of the country. Nice try at word smithing though.

400 posted on 12/02/2001 6:09:02 PM PST by Texasforever
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