TWA FLIGHT 800

3rd party | 11/27/01 | Fred Roberts

[sandydipper]

Today I had conversation with a commercial pilot who said that in July of 1996 just after the SHOOT DOWN of TWA800 a co-worker also a commercial pilot told him that he was sent to Paris to pick up the TWA president and fly him back to DC. The second pilot was a military pilot at the time and said that as soon as they returned to DC the TWA guy was helicoptered to the White House.

[barf]

The FDR tells us that something struck the B747 from the side. Fact. The radar record tells us that the P3 was towing another object. Fact. Aviation Week supports the drone flying in a back and forth manner. Fact. The P3 crew was transferred before being available for a backup interview. Fact. Taking all of the facts into consideration proves that the NTSB lied to us. Why did they lie to us? One does not normally lie unless they have something to hide. What did they want to hide? This is my theory. The NTSB lied to us for some reason.

[Non-Sequitur]

Only four of the crew were transeferred. The rest of the crewmembers who had been on that flight were available and were interviewed. Fact. But I'm sure that you left that part out by accident.

[a6intruder]

It's certainly not my duty to explain anything. The NTSB report is the record of the mishap. Persons who believe otherwise have the duty to prove any alternative causes.

However, since I have an interest, I will tell you that, if you look at all the Naval resources that have been shown to be present in the offshore warning airspace, anyone with a modicum of experience will conclude that an Anti-Submarine Warfare exercise or test was being conducted. And, that is exactly the right location for its conduct.

You, like others who have tried, have failed to provide documentary evidence of the presence of a missile, a missile firing platform, a drone or chaff (a new wrinkle in an old theme).

I do not deny you the right to disagree in the interpretation of FDR and/or radar records. No one is ignoring them; we just disagree that they demonstrate anything other than what the investigation concluded.

[Rokke]

Saying something is a fact without offering any proof means nothing. What specific FDR data shows something struck the 747? What specific radar data shows the P-3 towing something (it ain't Exhibit 13A or 13E). Give me a link to the Aviation Week article. As far as I know, Navy crews aren't transfered off the face of the planet. Saying the NTSB lied to us does not prove a submarine launched a KKV hybrid missile at a target towed by a P-3. And neither does anything else you've offered.

[Rokke]

Sorry a6, any inputs from you are irrelavent due to the fact that you actually know what you are talking about.

[Rokke]

"The radar record tells us that the P3 was towing another object. Fact"

Here are two quotes from you in this thread concerning the radar data:

1."The NTSB moved a block of chaff data by rotating its reference to the receiving antenna and I don't believe any specific data as a result of this."
2."The numbers themselves mean nothing to me. The plots have been messed with. We don't know for a fact that the points are exactly where they should be."

Yet, you say this same radar data factually proves the P-3 was pulling a target. If you don't even believe your own proof, do you really expect anyone else to?

[barf]

Strange that the aircraft commander, the copilot and two flight engineers were the ones who would have known what was going on were the ones transferred. The sandbaggers who look at scopes were only along for the ride. Use logic in your future posts. Thank you for writing though. I appreciate your effort though of questionable value.

[barf]

Rocky, this was a lame post. You can do better than that. Hey, didn't you see the humor when Aviation Week reported that the NTSB was not interested in interviewing the crew of the back and forth flying drone? That cracked me up. We all talk to computers when we call any business, so why should the NTSB be treated any differently? Those computers in the drone might carry on a very good conversation with folks from the NTSB. Their radar and FDR evidence tell the true story but they are too incompetent to believe it.

[barf]

You left out that the USAF asked me to work at the ATIC. I was an incredibly stupid aeronautical engineer in the reserves at the time. I was on active duty for only a part of my life, nowhere near a career. Like Washington, I was in during a war and out afterwards.

[Rokke]

In other words...you have no proof to offer and have no defense for using data you don't trust as your only evidence. Thank you.

[barf]

Re: FDR data. My ISP keeps cutting me off when I work in forums but I'll try. Relative to the altitude anomaly, the violent yaw pushed the nose against the adjacent air mass and that increased the pressure on the altitude transducer indicating a lower altitude. The pushing has nothing to do with what should have been a symmetrical action if the CWT actually blew up. Re: EPR data. The EPR of engine one dropped indicating a sudden retardation of flow through the engine while the EPRs of the remaining engines increased to the maximum readabiiity of the transducers indicating that the effective center of yaw was between engine one and engine two. A CWT exploding could not produce anything near this effect, not to mention that the victims were not burned while sitting in charred seats. Re: AOA. The negative pitch caused airflow over the nose indicating a false high angle of attack. As noted in the 20:31:12 time period it increased and then returned to preimpact value. Re: IAS. When the nose folded the airflow over the pitot tube moved obliquely and using the Bernoulli Effect, the pressure dropped as the transverse velocity increased. Re: Magnetic heading. The violent CCW yaw caused the wing outer panels to tear off. The rotation was logical since the values increased in a positive direction indicating a CW rotation as the tips tore. Compass transducers are located near the wing tip to prevent undue influence from the high metallic content of the engines. The hardware used in that area is brass to accomplish the same thing. (my ISP just turned me off). Re: roll angle. This was a false indication of a 144 degree roll. This brings up a funny comment by some that the anomalies came from a prior flight. Has anyone referred to a B747 nearly flying upside down while crossing an ocean? A violent rotation about one axis can cause a false action in a gyro about other axes. The same thing likely happened relative to pitch angle anomaly that showed an increase to 8.3 and a return to 2.2 degrees. The plane was not physically doing a roll at the time. Re: vertical acceleration. Value went from a positive 0.9 g to a negative 0.89 g when the missile struck the lower left hand side of the empennage. It returned to a positive 1.02g. Re: longitudinal acceleration. Value nearly doubled from 0.1 to 0.18 and returned to 0.05 before wires broke. Re: Upper rudder. Values went from 0.72 degree to 77.76 degrees then a negative 36.54 degrees and a return to 0.72 degree as the empennage folded to the left. Re: Elevator. Reading went from 0.1 degree to 11.2 degrees to -0.2 degree as the empennage moved downward at the same time as moving to the left. Absolutely none of the FDR anomalies could come from a CWT explosion. Something which struck the plane caused the crash. Q.E.D.

[Non-Sequitur]

Logic would be wasted on you. From your inane statement I assume that you believe that the guys in back - one of which was the tactical coordinator - would have no idea that they were towing something? No idea of what the mission was? Wouldn't notice something as large as your target sled slung under the wing when they boarded the plane? And you accuse me of faulty logic?

[barf]

I apologize. I shot from the hip on that one. My goof does not explain why the actual flying types were xferred though. The mission report was rather informal, don't you say? Aren't they generally typed and signed? Some clerk at the NTSB could have filled it out to match the cover-up. Why did the form look as if it had been clipped at the bottom? Especially where the carried equipment was listed? But you may be in the dark as much as I am. I don't want to infere that it was your responsibility to make it right.

[Rokke]

Nice FDR post. There's actually something there to take a long hard look at, and I will. But I've got one quick question. Based on the flightpaths of the 747, the P-3 and the 30 knot track, how would a missile launched from the 30 knot track at a target towed 1 mile behind the P-3 enter TWA 800 in the left rear and exit out the right front?

[_Jim]

Lessee now, _Jim...Pan Am 103 was determined to have been destroyed by a terrorist BOMB by the Brits

Lemme see now ... *if* you had done your history on this issue of hull ruptures on large, wide-bodied Boeing 747 aircraft and associated accidents YOU WOULD KNOW that United Airlines Flt 811 WAS ALSO initially listed as a 'bomb' by the NTSB -

- until they recovered the Forward Cargo Bay Door ...

PA103 has TOO MUCH in common in the way of DAMAGE with the three other Boeing 747 aircraft that underwent this type of EVENT - really common factors that can't ne simply ignored.

I dare you to re-read the piece I posted above again, and *if* you've a mind (a BIG *if* at the moment) there is a web site with a TON of corroborating material/documants accident reports at www.corazon.com that provides volumes of evidence to support a FCBD theory.

But, of course, to a grade-A conspiracy theorist REAL evidence doesn't mean jack.

Does it?

[acehai]

But, of course, to a grade-A conspiracy theorist REAL evidence doesn't mean jack.

Does it?

Reduced to name calling again, huh _Jimbo? Tell ya what. I'll answer this question if you can answer the one your idol at corizon, John Barry Smith (whom, it's been rumored, just might go under the nom de plume _Jim), can't answer. I'll repeat it, so you can't plead ignorance.

WHY WOULD THE NTSB/FBI pass up the opportunity to be able to point to an actual, verifiable, believable mechanical problem such as a cargo door hinge problem in lieu of the CWT fairy-tale? One where they wouldn't have to make liars and drunks out of credible, sober citizens and produce a multi-million dollar "cartoon" to cover their own lies and ineptness?

The NTSB is LYING, Hoss...And so is John Barry Smith. Can ya dig it?

[barf]

When UAL landed with a big hole in its side, someone with brain tissue may have figured that the cargo bay door was the culprit. PA103 was not afforded that luxury. IndiaAir was not afforded that luxury as well.

[barf]

Simple. The missile took a zigzag path since it broke away from its initial fix. A supersonic missile has to make very fast corrections which may repeatedly overshoot the heat trail. The radar record shows the debris pattern coming from the left rear, and this matches the violent CCW yaw and negative pitch shown in the FDR. Everything fits and that is one of the nice things about my theory. I wouldn't be so cock sure if it didn't. I was totally out in left field when I started my research but as things showed up, it became clear as to what happened.

[barf]

The debris pattern on the seabed matched the CCW yaw as well. The CW-504 piece was thrown rearward by the violence and the engine alignment when found was rotated 90 degrees CCW from the preimpact alignment.

[barf]

I am sorry that we both went out of our way to piss off each other but I got to the point of not understanding why others did not see the same evidence that I saw. I may not live long enough to get the truth from the liars at NTSB but I am satisfied that plenty of untruths were told. I don't have to go to my grave being guilty of being involved in a fraud. I do feel the opposite in shining a light on the truth. But then again, I may be all wet and am willing to accept whatever criticsm which may come my way. I have nothing to gain in the acceptance of my theory. I feel that all of us have the obligation of seeking the truth. Our republic is vulnerable to corruption in many ways and if we aren't content with that, we each have to do something about it.