Can we distinguish between Islam and Christianity

Miscellaneous | November 23, 2001 | John J. Abele

[RealGem]

Can we distinguish between Islam and Christianity?

By John J. Abele
November 23, 2001

Recently, Franklin Graham, son and religious successor to the legendary Billy Graham, caused a furor when he said: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."

The politically correct and the multiculturalists became unhinged. They criticized him and everything he stands for, from every direction. Of course, relatively few people are qualified to make such comparisons, and I am not one of them. You need not be a divinity scholar, however, to see th at the actions, beliefs and proclamations of Muslims are in no way similar to the beliefs of Judeo-Christians, and particularly those of the United States.

Our nation was founded by WASPs, white, Anglo Saxon Protestants. They were initially from England, and were followed by Irish, Scots, French and others from western Europe. Their ideas were in conflict with the official religions of their country of birth, so they fled to North America where they believed they would be free to exercise their Judeo-Christian beliefs.

From the very beginning, political as well as religious leaders, spoke and wrote about the God they believed in. The United States was founded by these men, and there is abundant documentary evidence to support this

The Pilgrims were Protestants, who rejected the institutional Church of England. They believed that the worship of God must originate in the inner man, and that forms of worship prescribed by man interfered with a true relationship with God. The Separatists used the term "church" to refer to the people, the Body of Christ, not to a building or institution. As their Pastor John Robinson said, "(When two or three are) gathered in the name of Christ by a covenant made to walk in all the way of God known unto them as a church ."

"That all the People may with united Hearts on that Day express a just Sense of His unmerited Favors: --Particularly in that it hath pleased Him,by His over ruling Providence to support us in a just and necessary War for the Defense of our Rights and Liberties; ...by defeating the Councils and evil Designs of our Enemies, and giving us Victory over their Troops --and by the Continuance of that Union among these States, which by his Blessing, will be their future Strength & Glory." --Samuel Adams on behalf of the Continental Congress, November 3, 1778, calling for a day of Thanksgiving during our Revolutionary War

"The Pilgrims came to America not to accumulate riches but to worship God, and the greatest wealth they left unborn generations was their heroic example of sacrifice that their souls might be free." --Harry Moyle Tippett

The first national Thanksgiving Proclamation, issued by the revolutionary Continental Congress on November 1, 1777, expressed gratitude for the colonials' October victory over British General Burgoyne at Saratoga. It was authored by Samuel Adams, the man the other Founders turned to for reasoned statements of liberties as God's blessings, its one sentence of 360 words read in part: "Forasmuch as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to him for benefits received...together with penitent confession of their sins, whereby they had forfeited every favor; and their humble and earnest supplications that it may please God through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance...it is therefore recommended...to set apart Thursday the eighteenth day of December next, for solemn thanksgiving and praise, that with one heart and one voice the good people may express the grateful feeling of their hearts and consecrate themselves to the service of their Divine Benefactor... acknowledging with gratitude their obligations to Him for benefits received....To prosper the means of religion, for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consisteth 'inrighteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost'."

When independence from England was achieved, and a Constitution written and ratified, freedom of religion was included. It was clearly stated in the First Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

At the time the Constitution was written, I doubt that there were any people in the United States who called themselves Muslims. In fact, very few if any even knew there were such people. There were still very few until WW II, when American military men were stationed, and fought all over the globe.

After that war the influx of Muslims, Buddhists, Confucians, and a host of other people with other religions started to immigrate to the United States, in ever increasing numbers. The Constitution guaranteed their religious freedom, and slowly but surely, they started to impose.

Muslims come to the schools in the United States by tens of thousands a year. I would imagine that the number of Americans who go to an Arab country to study could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Simultaneously, they say and do things which clearly show that they, as Muslims, have an inherent hatred of America and Americans. What benefit do we derive from this exchange?

The Muslims who come to the United States as immigrants, and those who become citizens, have no intention of integrating into the existing society They demand special considerations and special privileges - and usually get what they want. Americans have been taught that to do otherwise might be considered racist, and there is nothing worse than that.

No person can live in the United States and not be constantly reminded that we were founded as a Christian nation, and we remain one. You need money to live, and the dollar bill is a constant reminder. Benjamin Franklin believed that no man could create a nation alone, but a group of men, with the help of God, could do anything. "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our currency. The Latin above the pyramid on the dollar, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means, "God has favored our undertaking." The Latin below the pyramid, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, means, "a new order has begun."

I have not read the Koran, and I doubt that I will, but there are enough quotes easily available to provide an overview. I think that Franklin Graham said it very well: "The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."

[KanghaRue]

buzz:
What is it with you and the "Najran Christians?" This is 2001, and I don't know how they figure into the issues of today.

But you keep dredging them up, so maybe you could explain what relevance they have to the World Trade Center atrocities and the AlQaeda-led Islamic war against humanity?

kangharue:
The problem with the Islamic world is that have too many anti-thinking/anti-intellectual type people like you running the show. Can you imagine the state of the US if people such as yourself assumed absolute power? It would be a hell on earth.

[jejones]

Whatever one might think of this fellow's argument, his Latin could use some work. "Novus ordo seclorum" doesn't mean "a new order has begun;" it's not even a full sentence, as it lacks a verb. It translates as "[a] new order of [the] ages" (Latin doesn't have words corresponding to "a", "an," or "the"). For that mattter, "annuit coeptis" is borrowed from Virgil; I've seen it translated as "he approves of the beginnings," but the subject is only specified as to number and person by the verb form, and could as well be "she" or "it" as "he" in the absence of context.

[Patria One]

That describes religion in the late 4th century and early 5th century Arabia before Mohammed in the Time of Ignorance.

[Patria One]

As I Christian I would not presume to second guess God's plan. I accept that HE must have had something in mind when with Judiasm and Islam.

In any I case I think it is a mistake to ridicule and demean another's faith in God particularly when there are more similarities than differences.

[Patria One]

If you mean can there be bad Muslims? Of course.. just as there are bad Christians and bad Jews.

[Patria One]

I have never done drugs either so I can't tell you about that, but I have lived in Muslim countries and Christians are treated with kindness and respect.

[Patria One]

Islam has no relation to the WTC attack. OBL is an aberration. He is a terrorist who has twisted and used religion. People who teach hate in God's name and do evil things to their fellow man generally do that... and I mean that in the broadest sense.

[Patria One]

"The mystery of that is what separates the Christian from the pagan, moslem, atheist, agnostic, Jeffersonian Deist, whatever form of ignorance and faithlessness you choose to identify with. This is the simple rock that trips up shallow infidels like a_Turk. And you, I guess."

You left out Judiasm.

[Patria One]

"Good Muslims, like good libs, are quick to say "Oh yeah, that Jesus guy was a good teacher."

Sorry.Muslims call Jesus the Messiah.

Muslims respect and revere Jesus.

They consider him one of the greatest of God's prophets and messengers to humankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as "Jesus", but always adds the phrase "upon him be peace." The Qur'an confirms his virgin birth, and a special surah of the Qur'an is entitled "Mary." The Qur'an describes the Annunciation as follows:

"'Behold (O Mary!)' The Angel said, 'God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations.

O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be the Anointed (Masih or Messiah), Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and in the hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and shall be of the righteous.'

[TopQuark]

Emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicea for political reasons (go where the votes are), and the bishops got together and argued about this and that and came up with things like the doctrine of the trinity (which is self-evident when one actually reads the Gospels).

Thank you for a concise exposition of this moment in history.

Unfortunately, it does not answer the original question, "Is it possible, that the sources you site --- The Books of Acts, Chapters 1 & 2 in the New Testament for the words of Christ and the words of the apostles --- are not conclusive on this subject?"

The mere facts that:

(i) Christians read these sources for centuries without coming to the conclusion adopted at Nicea;
(ii) it took several Councils, not one, at which the most learned members of the Church argued the matter without resolving it,
(iii) even after the Nicean Council there remained for centuries large numbers of Christians who rejected the conclusions of Nicea (of course, the Church has promptly called this descent a "sect," much like many people on this board feel freely to call any religion other than Christianity a "cult").

prove that the Nicean Doctrine is not self-evident as you suggest, and does not by itself follow from the sources you sited.

Observe that in your post you followed the now standard practice of reciting history and then merely declaring some fact as self-evident. I wish all matters were so simple, but...

[Mark17]

If Jesus is God in the flesh, then we all are.

Well, thanks at least, for being honest, and for the invite. I have no doubt about your sincerity, but I can't handle that statement about all of us being a little god. That is Hindu theology. Oh well, have a nice forever.

Later on.

[Kevin Curry]

If Jesus is God in the flesh, then we all are. There is no exclusivity in God's Kingdom, only in the kingdoms of men.

How do you understand and explain these words of Jesus Christ?

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:14

"All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him." Luke 10:22

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matthew 8:22

"When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." Luke 13:28

[RobbyS]

It's a result of stripping religion of its power. Not necessarily. Secularization is essentially an intolerant process, and only Christianity has prevented the elitesd who espouse it from forcing society into a worship of the state. Two very different forms of Christianity profited from the destruction of the old State Church order: the evangelicals and the papacy. Each is hated by the seculat elites primarily because of the affections that masses of the people have for each.

[a_Turk]

This reading allows for a co-existence between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

That's what is supposet to happen.

I just wonder which sects within Islam are most open to this view.

Ignorance does not run along the lines of any sect, just like it does not in Christianity and Judaism.

[a_Turk]

Are you a Clintonoid in deep cover by any chance? You have the ethics of Billyboy.

please do not revert to name calling. Go back to the playground if you must act like an immature child.

[freebilly]

When dealing with spiritual realities, I'll go the original source material IN THE BIBLE and base my belief on what is found there.

[a_Turk]

Answer his frickin' question, TURK.

Leave out the weasel words, and the "Etc, Etc," because we know from your pal Clinton, you can cover a lot of turds with those little words.

Too bad for you, we already had 8 years of a lying psychopath. To get us tuned up--for the likes of you.

I am going to ignore you from now on. You have an abusive character.

[freebilly]

Perhaps I am one of the annoying Christians who would have to has his mind changed at the end of a scimitar.

[a_Turk]

You don't understand Christianity. Wherever your "understanding" of Christianity came from, it obviously is not from reading the Bible

There are those Christians to whom the status of Jesus as God is more important than His deeds and words of wisdom. Those to me are superficial Christians, but that's just me.

My understanding of Christianity came from the Bible, and my understanding of Christians came from everyday life. The same is true of my understanding of Islam.

Most of you Christians and Muslims cling to imagery of grandure. Very few of you actually understand what's beneath the surface, the appreciation of which leads to a belief of substance.

[freebilly]

The cornerstone of our faith is Christ as God and Savior crucified and resurrected for the sins of all mankind.

Any Christian who doesn't believe that might be a nice, moral, religious person, but he's not a Christian.