FDA unleashes new threat to human babies

American Life League, Inc. ^ | Release issued 21 Nov 01

[toenail]

FDA unleashes new threat to human babies

"In the midst of a terror campaign and a frightening battle against anthrax, the FDA has somehow been able to find the time to sanction yet another form of baby killing," said Judie Brown, president of American Life League. "The newly-approved birth control patch uses the same abortion-causing chemicals used in many other so-called contraceptives."

With its approval of the birth control patch, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has now approved its fourth new "contraceptive" option in the last year. The skin patch has been added to a collection that already includes a monthly injection, a hormone-emitting IUD, and a hormone-emitting contraceptive ring.

"All these devices deliver the same hormones to the woman's body and all work in the same manner," said Mrs. Brown. "They all affect the uterine lining and prevent implantation of a newly-conceived human being, thus causing the end of that human being's life."

"The FDA should be ashamed of itself," said Mrs. Brown. "All Americans should reject this new form of baby killing and seek to protect all innocent human life, from fertilization to natural death."

Release issued: 21 Nov 01

©2001 American Life League, Inc.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Babies are not dieing. Prehuman fetuses are.

Well for Pete's sake.....why should ANYTHING or ANYONE have to die???????????

I think I'll go away for the night. We STILL haven't started the packing. Sheesh. And work comes real early. TTYL!!!!

[pcl]

Does the act of dying make those babies human?

Your logic will not influence me. Babies are not dieing. Prehuman fetuses are.

This is my belief. Why? Because it is. Period. End of story.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Toenail said:When abortionists rip up "prehuman" fetuses, how can they turn around and sell their body parts to universities and research labs as human fetuses?

pcl, please, just think on this one overnight. Please. NOW I'm outta here.

Maybe. I think. I hope.

[toenail]

"Where are you going to get the victims for the class action lawsuit? Prolifers already know this stuff. Their morality will not let themselves become a victim of the technology. Do you plan to convert Free Choicers? Do you plan to have Prolifers lie about know they were doing self abortions?"

I didn't know, and many others don't know. If you'd read the article I posted above, the pro-life pastor who wrote it didn't even know, for a while.

"Wait. I know. You are going to sue on behalf of the Free Choicers who used the drug. Just like you would like to over turn ROE vs Wade on their behalf."

I would like Roe v. Wade overturned on behalf of the babies marked for death. And I don't have much chance of getting it overturned. The "Roe" plaintiff in Roe v. Wade (Norma McCorvey) and the "Doe" in Doe v. Bolton (Sandra Cano) are working on it now. Operation Outcry

Frankly, if abortion mills weren't granted special dispensations by politicians, they'd all be out of business, simply by enforcing existing laws against fraud. Life Dynamics, Inc.

[Free the USA]

This has been the most informative abortion debate I have seen on FreeRepublic.
Thanks for starting it.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Where are you going to get the victims for the class action lawsuit? Prolifers already know this stuff. Their morality will not let themselves become a victim of the technology.

(He hasn't started packing yet.....) I'D join in on this lawsuit! I was pro-life BEFORE I was a Christian. Abortion was never an option for me, something deep within me told me it was wrong, but not knowing any better I took those pills. Yeah, I did. I didn't know squat at that time, as most of us didn't.

[Syncro]

LOL

[toenail]

"This has been the most informative abortion debate I have seen on FreeRepublic. Thanks for starting it."

Call up Life Dynamics at 1-800-800-LIFE and order a copy of "Lime 5" -- it's only $2.00 now plus S&H. You'll also get a free copy of the booklet "Access: The Key to Pro-Life Victory" ($0.80 for each additional). If they had a PayPal-ish payment scheme, I'd buy a copy for you. All the laws and court decisions don't mean a thing if there are no abortionists willing to commit abortions. There are perfectly legal ways of putting them out of business, like Brian Finkel's finally being arrested for his long train of rapes against women having abortions. They're all scum.

Mark Crutcher's a realist, and he deserves more support.

[Syncro]

Where are you going to get the victims for the class action lawsuit?

Good point.

That is what we are fighting for.

The victims have all been murdered before they have a voice.

How brave.

Like someone else said, why don't the abortionist pick on someone their own size.

It is cowardly to kill these pre-born children just as it is cowardly to support the killers.

[Syncro]

Your logic will not influence me.

LOL

You got that right!

Logic doesn't influence you one bit.

Just as a beating heart in a 10 day old fetus (read living child) doesn't.

Or a tiny little perfectly formed foot on a 10 week old pre-born child.

BTW the way, you say that I make you mad. Well, you put it a different way.

Well try to understand this: I love you. Otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time on you.

Peace to children, not children in pieces.

[pcl]

I'm trying to get YOU to tell me, in your opinion, or better yet, scientifically!!! WHEN the fetus/blob becomes A BABY!

I answered the question early in this thread. Since I posted that answer I have been forced by you and others to carfully think about the question. The answer I am about to give is one that I have arrived at after much thinking and research. I derived this moment from scriptures, science and law. It is very explicit and it is now part of my beliefs. No. I will not discuss my rational for arriving at this decision on this board. I may discuss it with some people face-to-face. You do not have to like it. Just accept that it is what I believe (if you wish).

A fetus becomes a human when it draws its first breath.

A human remains a human until he breaths his last breath

Before the first breath, the fetus is only a potential human. After the last breath, the body is that of something that was human but it is no longer humman. The state of being human corresponds to the presence or absence of a soul.

[Hajman]

A fetus becomes a human when it draws its first breath.

A human remains a human until he breaths his last breath

Before the first breath, the fetus is only a potential human. After the last breath, the body is that of something that was human but it is no longer humman. The state of being human corresponds to the presence or absence of a soul.

Actually, human is defined as homo sapien, which is a designation of species (which is given at any stage of organism development, from the earliest, conception, on until after death). But even considering a fetus becomes a human at it's first breath, when is that? When a fetus takes in good air, and gives off bad air (if any), then the fetus 'breaths'. Note that it's not necessary for a fetus to use it's lungs to breath. Fish breath with their gills. Plants breath with their leaves. Lungs arn't necessary. They're just the primary means of respiration of humans from infant to adult. As long as the fetus is getting good air in, and giving bad air out, it's breathing. (Consider the case of the infant that's unable to use it's lungs, and must be kept on a lung machine for the rest of it's life. If you define breathing as only respirating through lungs, this infant will never become 'human', in your definition.) When does the fetus first take in good air (oxygen), and give out bad (CO2)? When it attaches to the womb. It exchanges good and bad air with it's mother via the umbilical cord. In other words, it breaths (respirates: takes good air in, and lets out bad air). Thus, by your definition, the fetus is a human when it gets attached to it's mother and exchanges air with her, via the umbilical cord and placenta (remember, it doesn't matter how the fetus gets good air, as long as it gets it, and it gives off bad air. In this case, how it gets it is by an osmosis-style function, which is as natural to the fetus as lung-use is to us).

-The Hajman-

[toenail]

"Before the first breath, the fetus is only a potential human. After the last breath, the body is that of something that was human but it is no longer humman. The state of being human corresponds to the presence or absence of a soul."

More theological and philosophical nonsense.

That's odd there, how you can turn a non-human appendix into a human appendix just by having a non-human lung receive its first blast of non-amniotic oxygen. Is there something special about oxygen in the air that's different than the oxygen received in amniotic fluid or the umbilical cord? Do we need to revise our Periodic Table of Elements to account for this hitherto unknown non-oxygen oxygen?

If the non-human lungs receive the first breath of atmospheric air, how do the human lungs transfer the oxygen to non-human arteries to be distributed to non-human tissues in non-human blood cells? Do those non-human cells interact at some level that no one has ever known about? Do they say, "Here's some oxygen. Oh, by the way, you're human now. Pass it on."

Talk about outdated [im]morality....

[pcl]

I don't think the first amendment can have any restrictions

You can try to subvert what I believe. It will have not effct upon me. Some others will probably enjoy your analysis and mind twisting of my beliefs so have it. Just know that you are really talking to them and not me.

[pcl]

Ops, copy paste buffer had the wrong text.

[pcl]

More theological and philosophical nonsense.

I see you do not believe what I believe.

[Hajman]

You can try to subvert what I believe. It will have not effct upon me. Some others will probably enjoy your analysis and mind twisting of my beliefs so have it. Just know that you are really talking to them and not me.

Sorry sir, but all I gave was a synopsis of reality (as biologists know it) pertaining to the subject at hand. Whether you want to believe in reality or not is up to you. But if you want to call my statements incorrect, you're going to have to refute them with logic and facts. Here's my fact number one: The fetus respirates via the umbilical cord from the time it attaches to it's mother. Now, let's here your counter statements, if it's really the truth your interested in. If all you're interested in is pushing your own ideas (that appear to have no basis in fact or logic, by your lack of applying them to your arguments), then I hope you see the truth sometime. As for now, I'll be glad to continue debating with fact and logic. If you think I'm wrong, point out specifically where you think I'm wrong, and use facts and logic to show why I'm wrong (your opinions don't count. Neither do mine. That's why I try to keep my opinions out of these debates; at least as far as the actual debate goes. I occassionally give opinions about people, but those are irrevelent to the validaty of the debate).

-The Hajman-

[pcl]

I am talking about breathing air into the lungs. That point where the fetus become autonomus from the mother.

I do not believe the bible is word of god like some people, but I do believe it has some value in investigating moral issues. Having made that equivocation I will now present some biblical foundation.

(Gen 2:7)And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Man becomes a living soul when he breathes the breath of life. Simple, is it not?

The Hebrews showed a strong proclivity towards this idea also. The Hebrew word for human being or living person is nephesh, which is also the word for "breathing." Nephesh occurs hundreds of times in the Bible as the identifying factor in human life. Life is breathing. Simple is it not?

How about science? Well, a group of 167 scientists and physicians told the Supreme Court in 1989 that "the most important determinant of viability is lung development," and that viability is not achieved significantly earlier than at twenty-four weeks of gestation because critical organs, "particularly the lungs and kidneys, do not mature before that time." While this does not directly address the issue of the breath of life, it does tell us that a fetus of less than 24 weeks will not be able to breath. If it can not breath then if can not obtain a soul and partake in human life.

Now, let's look at the law. Neither Anglo-Saxon law nor the U.S. Constitution has ever given a fetus the same legal status as a woman. Until a baby is born there is only a potential person. When abortion was illegal, it was reviewed as a felony rather than a homicide.New York in its homicide statute defines a "person when referring to the victim of a homicide (as) a human being who has been born and is alive." (N.Y. Rev. Penal Law 125.05] The U.S. Constitution in the 14th Amendment makes birth a prerequisite to citizenship.

So, there are some of the elements that have established my belief that life begins and ends with breathing air into the lungs. None of this stuff will have any effect upon anyone but me. The material given is not part of my belief system, it is just some stuff that got me to this point. It is sort of like a ladder. Once you have climbed the ladder, you do not need again if you never intend to come down. To put it in plain English, invalidating one or all of these idea will not change what is now my belief.

(Do I sound pedantic?)

[Syncro]

Gen 2:7)And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

Man becomes a living soul when he breathes the breath of life. Simple, is it not?

Yes when God created Adam until he breathed into him he was not exchanging oxygen through his system.

As you see from a previous reply, the child starts this process soon after conception.

Therefore we can conclude that you believe life starts soon after conception.

Because man becomes a living soul at that time.

Your words are the best arguement against your belief sometimes.

That makes it easier.

:>)

[Syncro]

A fetus becomes a human when it draws its first breath.

You have just justified Partial Birth Abortion.

I thought I read earlier you thought abortion shouldn't be preformed after the first trimester.

Right?