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To: Hajman
I am talking about breathing air into the lungs. That point where the fetus become autonomus from the mother.

I do not believe the bible is word of god like some people, but I do believe it has some value in investigating moral issues. Having made that equivocation I will now present some biblical foundation.

(Gen 2:7)And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Man becomes a living soul when he breathes the breath of life. Simple, is it not?

The Hebrews showed a strong proclivity towards this idea also. The Hebrew word for human being or living person is nephesh, which is also the word for "breathing." Nephesh occurs hundreds of times in the Bible as the identifying factor in human life. Life is breathing. Simple is it not?

How about science? Well, a group of 167 scientists and physicians told the Supreme Court in 1989 that "the most important determinant of viability is lung development," and that viability is not achieved significantly earlier than at twenty-four weeks of gestation because critical organs, "particularly the lungs and kidneys, do not mature before that time." While this does not directly address the issue of the breath of life, it does tell us that a fetus of less than 24 weeks will not be able to breath. If it can not breath then if can not obtain a soul and partake in human life.

Now, let's look at the law. Neither Anglo-Saxon law nor the U.S. Constitution has ever given a fetus the same legal status as a woman. Until a baby is born there is only a potential person. When abortion was illegal, it was reviewed as a felony rather than a homicide.New York in its homicide statute defines a "person when referring to the victim of a homicide (as) a human being who has been born and is alive." (N.Y. Rev. Penal Law 125.05] The U.S. Constitution in the 14th Amendment makes birth a prerequisite to citizenship.

So, there are some of the elements that have established my belief that life begins and ends with breathing air into the lungs. None of this stuff will have any effect upon anyone but me. The material given is not part of my belief system, it is just some stuff that got me to this point. It is sort of like a ladder. Once you have climbed the ladder, you do not need again if you never intend to come down. To put it in plain English, invalidating one or all of these idea will not change what is now my belief.

(Do I sound pedantic?)

278 posted on 11/27/2001 12:39:37 AM PST by pcl
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To: pcl
Gen 2:7)And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

Man becomes a living soul when he breathes the breath of life. Simple, is it not?

Yes when God created Adam until he breathed into him he was not exchanging oxygen through his system.

As you see from a previous reply, the child starts this process soon after conception.

Therefore we can conclude that you believe life starts soon after conception.

Because man becomes a living soul at that time.

Your words are the best arguement against your belief sometimes.

That makes it easier.

:>)

279 posted on 11/27/2001 12:51:16 AM PST by Syncro
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To: pcl
I once knew a poster named Erika who used the same arguments that you do...who also supported partial birth abortion. I guess that since the "fetus" hasn't breathed any air yet, in a partial birth abortion, it's okay to kill it with the scissors in the brain, right?
281 posted on 11/27/2001 12:57:28 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: pcl
(Do I sound pedantic?) 278 posted by pcl No, you sound so full of sh!t, your eyes are turning brown. You float about the internet, using different ID names, trying to sell your abject stupidity as enlightenment. Ultrasound proved you wrong years ago, but you apparently cannot learn, too thick headed, too agenda driven. Once a ghoul always a ghoul ... happy with yourself are ya? You are a sickening excuse for a human being. You get caught in your own lies every time you respond more than two or three times. You're busted, Sandy!
292 posted on 11/27/2001 7:46:27 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: pcl
am talking about breathing air into the lungs. That point where the fetus become autonomus from the mother.

You don't sound pedantic, but you do sound ignorant. Do you know how many children are born with breathing problems? Once you make breathing independently the criteria for new life, you have given insurance companies the ability to deprive medical treatment to many infants born with correctible problems.

You may also want to consider how many elderly people also have problems breathing. Your definition would open the door to condsidering them unworthy of medical treatment.

293 posted on 11/27/2001 7:55:04 AM PST by independentmind
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