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Unintended Consequences - I prefer the version from John Ross.

As for Ayoob's comments, his solution isn't banning guns. Knowing what I know about him, his solution is TRAINING.

As for self-defense, that's BS. Most of the time, the gun ain't fired. This is BS, which I expect from VPC.

1 posted on 11/19/2001 12:49:32 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
Left out of those reports is the fact that in 1999 for every one time a woman used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 120 women were murdered with handguns.
What exactly is this statement meant to show? I think it quite clearly demonstrates the opposite of what the liberal buffons are trying to state here. To me this shows that 121 women were assaulted, one out of the 121 women was armed, she used her handgun and saved her life: the 120 unarmed women died.

To read it how the authors intended makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

These anti-gun loons need to see if they can't get their frontal labotomies undone...
33 posted on 11/19/2001 1:15:57 PM PST by RebelDawg
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To: Dan from Michigan
The data doesn't say that handguns are ineffective. It says that people who don't know how to use them properly are ineffective. Of course, VPC doesn't want people to start learning how to use them effectively, it wants us to stay ignorant, and use that as an excuse for the government to take the guns away from us.
34 posted on 11/19/2001 1:16:51 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: Dan from Michigan; Mercuria; AnnaZ; SUSSA
"Violence Policy Center (VPC) today released......"


35 posted on 11/19/2001 1:16:54 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: AnnaZ; HangFire; Lady Jenn; Kithlyara; feinswinesuksass; abigail2; AnneJustice4all; miss print...
These clowns would be risible if the subject weren't so serious!!

"While the gun industry has greedily hawked its wares in the aftermath of the September 11th tragedy, they have worked even harder to keep hidden from the American public a secret they readily share among themselves—handguns pose grave dangers to their owners and families," states Tom Diaz, author of Unintended Consequences and VPC Senior Policy Analyst.

Now...WHO exactly has been hawking WHAT in the aftermath of 9/11?

Law Enforcement, Religious and Gun Safety Groups Call for Stronger Gun Laws to Increase Homeland Security

VPC and Brady Campaign have been working round the clock to hawk their OWN wares, and with the assistance of the media slugs...their chief item for sale being fear of freedom.

And speaking of hiding truth...is VPC still using the Kellerman reports as "proof" of their claims? HAHAHAHAHA!!!

BTW...none of the pro-gun experts mentioned are hiding a damned thing, nor are they stating that handguns "are ineffective self-defense tools". Tommy, didn't Mama ever tell you your tongue would fall out with whoppers like this?


"This study is comprised substantially of writings from pro-gun experts who readily admit handguns are basically impossible to use effectively in self-defense."

Please have Dramamine on hand for spin.

Nothing of the sort was stated.

Shameless shams!!!

40 posted on 11/19/2001 1:21:47 PM PST by Mercuria
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To: Dan from Michigan
In fact, in 1998, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 51 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.

Apples and oranges. What does this prove except that there's a lot of crime out there? Furthermore, most of these homicides involve the endpoints of rival gang-bangers' criminal careers. It's completely unrelated to home invasions, or the safety of ordinary citizens on the street.

in 1999 for every one time a woman used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 120 women were murdered with handguns.

Sounds like more women need guns and training of their own.

43 posted on 11/19/2001 1:24:59 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Dan from Michigan
Well, then, I guess I'll just have to recommend one of these:

Remington 870 Marine Magnum


44 posted on 11/19/2001 1:25:27 PM PST by brewcrew
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To: Dan from Michigan
Well, gee, I'M convinced- guess I'll stop carrying my trusty Smith$Wesson and get myself one of those deadly semi-automatic NERF bats! At least I won't be likely to hurt my poor, ignorant, uncoordinated redneck self with THAT!!!
48 posted on 11/19/2001 1:31:49 PM PST by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: Dan from Michigan
I fail to see how an 1851 Navy Colt exploding into the face of a would-be attacker could be termed "Ineffective".
52 posted on 11/19/2001 1:39:07 PM PST by Shenandoah
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To: Dan from Michigan
What does VPC stand for?

Virtual Political Correctness?

54 posted on 11/19/2001 1:41:29 PM PST by Drammach
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To: Dan from Michigan
Dan, I didn't go farther than #1.... this is garbage.

Years ago I used to train local policemen in the use of "special weapons"-- subguns, short shotguns, and sniper's rifles, plus sidearms.

I know quite a few cops, and all their wives & daughters carry, or at least own, a pistol or two. Doesn't that tell you all you need to know?

55 posted on 11/19/2001 1:41:31 PM PST by backhoe
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To: Dan from Michigan
And why, Dan, do they only focus on handguns? I'm not a gun owner yet, but I plan to purchase a nice double-barrel shotgun for my home protection, which has been recommended to me by gun dealers. They say you don't need to be as skilled with a shotgun as wih a handgun, and they're easier to control. So why are the only "statistics" they quote about handguns?
56 posted on 11/19/2001 1:42:33 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: Dan from Michigan
In fact, in 1998, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 51 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.

A firearm rarely needs to be fired in self-defense. Most of the time the criminal runs away as soon as he discovers his intended victim is armed.

Nine Myths of Gun Control

Myth #1 "Guns are only used for killing"

Compared to about 35,000 gun deaths every year, 2.5 million good Americans use guns to protect themselves, their families, and their livelihoods - there are 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun - five lives are protected per minute - and, of those 2.5 million protective uses of guns, about 1/2 million are believed to have saved lives.[2]

Myth #2 "Guns are dangerous when used for protection"

US Bureau of Justice Statistics show that guns are the safest and most effective means of defense. Using a gun for protection results in fewer injuries to the defender than using any other means of defense and is safer than not resisting at all.[3] The myth that "guns are only used for killing and the myth that "guns are dangerous when used for protection melt when exposed to scientific examination and data. The myths persist because they are repeated so frequently and dogmatically that few think to question the myths by examining the mountains of data available. Let us examine the other common myths.

Myth #3 "There is an epidemic of gun violence"

Even their claim of an "epidemic of violence is false. That claim, like so many other of their claims, has been so often dogmatically repeated that few think to question the claim by checking the FBI and other data. Homicide rates have been stable to slightly declining for decades except for inner city teens and young adults involved with illicit drug trafficking. We have noticed that, if one subtracts the inner city contribution to violence, American homicide rates are lower than in Britain and the other paragons of gun control.[2]

The actual causes of inner city violence are family disruption, media violence, and abject poverty, not gun ownership. In the inner city, poverty is so severe that crime has become a rational career choice for those with no hope of decent job opportunities.[4]

Myth #4 "Guns cause violence"

Homicide

For over twenty years it has been illegal for teens to buy guns and, despite such gun control, the African-American teenage male homicide rate in Washington, DC is 227 per 100,000 - 20 times the US average![5] The US group for whom legal gun ownership has the highest prevalence, middle-aged white men, has a homicide rate of less than 7 per 100,000 - about half of the US average.[6]

If the "guns-cause-violence theory is correct why does Virginia, the alleged "easy purchase source of all those illegal Washington, DC guns, have a murder rate of 9.3 per 100,000, one- ninth of DC's overall homicide rate of 80.6?[7 ]Why are homicide rates lowest in states with loose gun control (North Dakota 1.1, Maine 1.2, South Dakota 1.7, Idaho 1.8, Iowa 2.0, Montana 2.6) and highest in states and the district with draconian gun controls and bans (District of Columbia 80.6, New York 14.2, California 12.7, Illinois 11.3, Maryland 11.7)?[7] The "guns- cause-violence and "guns exacerbate violence theories founder. Again, the causes of inner city violence are family disruption, media violence, and abject poverty, not gun ownership.

Accidents

National Safety Council data show that accidental gun deaths have been falling steadily since the beginning of this century and now hover at an all time low. This means that about 200 tragic accidental gun deaths occur annually, a far cry from the familiar false imagery of "thousands of innocent children.[8]

Suicide

Gun bans result in lower gun suicide rates, but a compensatory increase in suicide from other accessible and lethal means of suicide (hanging, leaping, auto exhaust, etc.). The net result of gun bans? No reduction in total suicide rates.[3] People who are intent in killing themselves find the means to do so. Are other means of suicide so much more politically correct that we should focus on measures that decrease gun suicide, but do nothing to reduce total suicide deaths?

Myth #5 The "Friends and Family fallacy"

It is common for the public health advocates of gun bans to claim that most murders are of "friends and family". The medical literature includes many such false claims, that "most [murderers] would be considered law abiding citizens prior to their pulling the trigger"[9 ]and "most shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for protection."[10]

Not only do the data show that acquaintance and domestic homicide are a minority of homicides,[11] but the FBI's definition of acquaintance and domestic homicide requires only that the murderer knew or was related to the decedent. That dueling drug dealers are acquainted does not make them "friends". Over three- quarters of murderers have long histories of violence against not only their enemies and other "acquaintances," but also against their relatives.[12,13,14,15] Oddly, medical authors have no difficulty recognizing the violent histories of murderers when the topic is not gun control - "A history of violence is the best predictor of violence."[16] The perpetrators of acquaintance and domestic homicide are overwhelmingly vicious aberrants with long histories of violence inflicted upon those close to them. This reality belies the imagery of "friends and family" murdering each other in fits of passion simply because a gun was present "in the home."

Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"

To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long-discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder."[17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.

The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count. Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator.[3] Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand-fold. Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun.[2]

Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times,"[18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.

Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse . From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes. Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.

Myth #7 "The costs of gun violence are high"

The actual economic cost of medical care for gun violence is approximately $1.5-billion per year[20]- less than 0.2% of America's $800-billion annual health care costs. To exaggerate the costs of gun violence, the advocates of gun prohibition routinely include estimates of "lost lifetime earnings" or "years of productive life lost" - assuming that gangsters, drug dealers, and rapists would be as socially productive as teachers, factory workers, and other good Americans - to generate inflated claims of $20-billion or more in "costs."[20] One recent study went so far as to claim the "costs" of work lost because workers might gossip about gun violence.[21]

What fraction of homicide victims are actually "innocent children" who strayed into gunfire? Far from being pillars of society, it has been noted that more than two-thirds of gun homicide "victims" are drug traffickers or their customers.[22,23] In one study, 67% of 1990 homicide "victims" had a criminal record, averaging 4 arrests for 11 offenses.[23] These active criminals cost society not only untold human suffering, but also an average economic toll of $400,000 per criminal per year before apprehension and $25,000 per criminal per year while in prison.[24] Because the anti-self-defense lobby repeatedly forces us to examine the issue of "costs," we are forced to notice that, in cutting their violent "careers" short, the gun deaths of those predators and criminals may actually represent an economic savings to society on the order of $4.5 billion annually - three times the declared "costs" of guns. Those annual cost savings are only a small fraction of the total economic savings from guns, because the $4.5 billion does not include the additional savings from innocent lives saved, injuries prevented, medical costs averted, and property protected by guns.

Whether by human or economic measure, we conclude that guns offer a substantial net benefit to our society. Other benefits, such as the feeling of security and self-determination that accompany protective gun ownership, are less easily quantified. There is no competent research that suggests making good citizens' access to guns more difficult (whether by bureaucratic "red tape," taxation, or outright bans) will reduce violence. It is only good citizens who comply with gun laws, so it is only good citizens who are disarmed by gun laws. As evidenced by jurisdictions with the most draconian gun laws (e.g. New York City, Washington, DC, etc.), disarming these good citizens before violence is reduced causes more harm than good. Disarming these good citizens costs more - not fewer - lives.

Myth #8 "Gun control will keep guns off the street' "

Vicious predators who ignore laws against murder, mayhem, and drug trafficking routinely ignore those existent American gun laws. No amount of well-meaning, wishful thinking will cause these criminals to honor additional gun laws.

Advocates of gun control rarely discuss the enforceability of their proposals, an understandable lapse, since even police-state tactics cannot effectively enforce gun bans. As evidence, in Communist China, a country whose human rights record we dare not emulate, 120,000 banned civilian guns were confiscated in one month in 1994.[25]

Existent gun laws impact only those willing to comply with such laws, good people who already honor the laws of common decency. Placing further impediments in the path of good citizens will further disproportionately disarm those good people - especially disarming good, poor people, the people who live in the areas of highest risk.

If "better" data are forthcoming, we are ready to reassess the public policy implications. Until such time, the data suggest that victim disarmament is not a policy that saves lives.

What does save lives is allowing adult, mentally-competent, law- abiding citizen access to the safest and most effective means of protection - guns.[26,27]

Brady I and Brady II

The extremists at Handgun Control Inc. boast that "23,000 potential felons"[28] [emphasis added] were prevented from retail gun purchases in the first month of the Brady Law. Several jurisdictions have reviewed the preliminary Brady Law data which resulted in the initial Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) overestimated appraisal[29] of the "success" of the Brady Law.

The Virginia State Police, Phoenix Police Department, and other jurisdictions have shown that almost every one of those "potential" felons were not felons or otherwise disqualified from gun ownership. Many were innocents whose names were similar to felons. Misdemeanor traffic convictions, citations for fishing without a license, and failure to license dogs were the types of trivial crimes that resulted in a computer tag that labeled the others as "potential" felons.[30] In transparent "governmentese," BATF Spokesperson Susan McCarron avers, "we feel [the Brady Law has] been a success, even though we don't have a whole lot of numbers. Anecdotally, we can find some effect."[31]

Even if the preliminary data had been accurate, that data only showed about 6.3% of retail sales were "possible" felons - consistent with repeated studies showing how few crime guns are obtained in retail transactions. A minuscule number of actual felons has been identified by Brady Law background checks, but the US Department of Justice is unable to identify even one prosecution of those felons.[32 ] In such circumstance, the minimal expected benefit of the Brady Law diminishes to no benefit at all. The National Institute of Justice has shown that very few crime guns are purchased from gun dealers. 93% of crime guns are obtained as black market, stolen guns, or from similar non-retail sources.[28] Since none of Handgun Control Inc.'s Brady I or Brady II suggestions impact on the source of 93% of crime guns, their symbolic nostrums cannot be expected to do anything to reduce crime or violence.

Residential gun dealers

The press and broadcast media have vilified low-volume gun dealers, pejoratively named "kitchen table" dealers, yet the claim that such dealers are the source of a "proliferation of guns on our streets" is contradicted by data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF). Those data show that 43% of gun dealers had no inventory and sold no guns at all.[33 ]In fact, Congressional testimony before enactment of the Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) documented that the large number of low-volume gun dealers is a direct result of BATF policy. Prior to FOPA the BATF prosecuted gun collectors who sold as few as three guns per year at gun shows, claiming that they were unlicensed, and therefore illegal, gun dealers. To avoid such harassment and prosecution, thousands of American gun collectors became, at least on paper, licensed gun dealers. Now the BATF and the anti-self-defense lobby claim BATF does not have the resources to audit the paperwork monster it created. Reducing the number of gun dealers will only ensure that guns are more expensive - unaffordable to the poor who are at greatest risk from violence, ensuring that gun ownership becomes a privilege of only the politically connected and the affluent.

Instead of heaping more onerous restrictions upon good citizens or law-abiding gun dealers who are not the source of crime guns, is it not more reasonable - though admittedly more difficult - to target the real source of crime guns? It is time to admit the futility of attacking the supply of legal guns to interdict the less than 1% of the American gun stock that is used criminally. Instead, we believe effort should focus on targeting the actual "black market" in stolen guns. It is equally important to reduce the demand for illicit guns and drugs, most particularly by presenting attractive life opportunities and career alternatives to the inner-city youth that are overwhelmingly and disproportionately the perpetrators and victims of violence in our society.

Myth #9 "Citizens are too incompetent to use guns for protection"

Nationally good citizens use guns about seven to ten times as frequently as the police to repel crime and apprehend criminals and they do it with a better safety record than the police.[3] About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person. The odds of a defensive gun user killing an innocent person are loss than 1 in 26,000.[27] Citizens intervening in crime are less likely to be wounded than the police.

We can explain why the civilian record is better than the police, but the simple truth remains - citizens have an excellent record of protecting themselves and their communities and NOT ONE of the fear mongering fantasies of the gun control lobby has come true.

"Treat cars like guns"

Advocates of increased gun restrictions have promoted the automobile model of gun ownership, however, the analogy is selectively and incompletely applied. It is routinely overlooked that no license or registration is needed to "own and operate" any kind of automobile on private property. No proof of "need" is required for automobile registration or drivers' licensure. Once licensed and registered, automobiles may be driven on any public road and every state's licenses are given "full faith and credit" by other states. There are no waiting periods, background checks, or age restrictions for the purchase of automobiles. It is only their use - and misuse - that is regulated.

Although the toll of motor vehicle tragedies is many times that of guns, no "arsenal permit" equivalent is asked of automobile collectors or motorcycle racing enthusiasts. Neither has anyone suggested that automobile manufacturers be sued when automobiles are frequently misused by criminals in bank robberies, drive-by shootings, and all manner of crime and terrorism. No one has suggested banning motor vehicles because they "might" be used illegally or are capable of exceeding the 55 mph speed limit, even though we know "speed kills." Who needs a car capable of three times the national speed limit? "But cars have good uses" is the usual response. So too do guns have good uses, the protection of as many as 2.5-million good Americans every year.

Progressive reform

Complete, consistent, and constitutional application of the automobile model of gun ownership could provide a rational solution to the debate and enhance public safety. Reasonable compromise on licensing and training is possible. Where state laws have been reformed to license and train good citizens to carry concealed handguns for protection, violence and homicide have fallen.[11,26,27] Even unarmed citizens who abhor guns benefit from such policies because predators cannot determine in advance who is carrying a concealed weapon.

Fear mongering and the gun control lobby

In opposing progressive reforms that restore our rights to self- protection, the anti-self-defense lobby has claimed that reform would cause blood to run in the streets, that inconsequential family arguments would turn into murderous incidents, that the economic base of communities would collapse, and that many innocent people would be killed[26,27] In Florida, the anti- self-defense lobby claimed that blood would run in the streets of "Dodge City East," the "Gunshine State" --- but we do not have to rely on irrational propaganda, imaginative imagery, or political histrionics. We can examine the data.

Data, not histrionics

One-third of Americans live in the 22 progressive states that have reformed laws to allow good citizens to readily protect themselves outside their homes.[26,27] In those states crime rates are lower for every category of crime indexed by the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.[11] Homicide, assault, and overall violent crime are each 40% lower, armed robbery is 50% lower, rape is 30% lower, and property crimes are 10% lower.[11] The reasonable reform of concealed weapon laws resulted in none of the mayhem prophesied by the anti-self-defense lobby. In fact, the data suggest that, providing they are in the hands of good citizens, more guns "on the street" offer a considerable benefit to society - saving lives, a deterrent to crime, and an adjunct to the concept of community policing.

As of 12/31/94, Florida had issued 188,106 licenses and not one innocent person had been killed or injured by a licensed gun owner in the 6 years post-reform. Of the 188,106 licenses, 17 (0.0001%) were revoked for misuse of the firearm. Not one of those revocations were associated with any injury whatsoever.[27] In opposing reform, fear is often expressed that "everyone would be packing guns," but, after reform, most states have licensed fewer than 2% (and in no state more than 4%) of qualified citizens.[27]

Notwithstanding gun control extremists' unprophetic histrionics , the observed reality was that crime fell, in part, because vicious predators fear an unpredictable encounter with an armed citizen even more than they fear apprehension by police[34] or fear our timid and porous criminal justice system. It is no mystery why Florida's tourists are targeted by predators - predators are guaranteed that, unlike Florida's citizens, tourists are unarmed.

Those who advocate restricting gun rights often justify their proposals "if it saves only one lifeI." There have been matched state pair analyses, crime trend studies, and California county- by-county research[27] demonstrating that licensing law-abiding, mentally-competent adults to carry concealed weapons for protection outside their homes saves many lives, so gun prohibitionists should support such reforms, if saving lives is truly their motivation.

The right

Importantly, the proponents of the automobile model of gun ownership fail to note that controls appropriate to a privilege (driving) are inappropriate to a constitutional right (gun ownership and use). Let there be no doubt. The Supreme Court has repeatedly acknowledged an individual right to keep and bear arms.[35] It is specifically the "weapons of war" - militia weapons - that are protected. The intent of the Second Amendment was to ensure that, by guaranteeing the individual right to arms, a citizen militia could always oppose a tyrannical federal government. That the Supreme Court has acknowledged the right, but done little to protect that right, is reminiscent of the sluggishness of the Supreme Court in protecting other civil rights before those rights became politically fashionable. Need we be reminded that it has taken over a century for the Supreme Court to meaningfully protect civil rights guaranteed to African-Americans in the Fourteenth Amendment?

Besides Second Amendment guarantees of the pre-existent right to keep and bear arms, there are Ninth,[36] Tenth,[35] and Fourteenth Amendment,[37] as well as "natural right"[38] guarantees to self-protection.

Since 1980, of thirty-nine law review articles addressing the Supreme Court case law and history of the right to keep and bear arms, thirty-five support the individual right view and only four support the "collective right only" view[39] (and three of these four are authored or co-authored by employees of the antiselfdefense lobby). One would never guess such a legal and scholarly mismatch from the casual misinterpretations of the right in the medical literature and popular press. The error of the gun prohibitionist view is also evident from the fact that their "collective right only" theory is exclusively an invention of the twentieth century "gun control" debate - a concept of which neither the Founding Fathers nor any pre-1900 case or commentary seems to have had any inkling.

California and Concealed Weapons

California has been studied and we discover that the counties that have the lowest rates of concealed weapon licensees have the highest rates of murder and the counties with the highest rates of concealed license issuance have the lowest rates of murder.[27]

It has also been noted that current California law gives considerable discretion to police chiefs and county sheriffs regarding the issuance of Concealed Weapon Licenses. Particularly in urban jurisdictions, abuse of that discretion is common. The result? In many jurisdictions only the affluent and politically connected are issued such licenses. In California few women and virtually no minorities are so licensed, even though poor minorities are the Californians at greatest risk from violence.

Conclusion

The police do not have a crystal ball. Murderers, rapists, and robbers do not schedule their crimes or notify the police in advance, so the police cannot be where they are needed in time to prevent death and injury. They can only arrive later to count the bodies and, hopefully, apprehend the predators.

There have been state-by-state analyses, county-by-county research, and crime trend studies. All the research shows that allowing good citizens to protect themselves outside their homes is a policy that saves lives. The anti-self defense lobby advances many proposals in hopes that it will "save only one life." Reform of concealed carry laws is a policy that saves many lives, so it is a policy that should be supported by the gun control lobby, if saving lives is really their interest.

Will Stockton base its policy on experience and sound data? or will Stockton fall prey to misinformation, fear, prejudice, and imaginative false imagery?[40]

We beg you. Let Stockton's good citizens protect themselves, their loved ones, and their livelihoods. The ordinance before you costs no money and it will save many lives.

[1] Leape LL. "Error in Medicine." JAMA. 1994; 272(23): 1851-57.

[2] Suter E. "Guns in the Medical Literature - A Failure of Peer Review." Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia. March 1994; 83: 133-48. [3] Kleck G. Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. New York: Aldine de Gruyter. 1991.

[4] Suter EA, Waters WC, Murray GB, et al. "Violence in America - Effective Solutions." Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia. Spring 1995, forthcoming.

[5] Fingerhut LA, Ingram DD, Feldman JJ. "Firearm Homicide Among Black Teenage Males in Metropolitan Counties: Comparison of Death Rates in Two Periods, 1983 through 1985 and 1987 through 1989." JAMA. 1992; 267:3054-8.

[6] Hammett M, Powell KE, O?Carroll PW, Clanton ST. "Homicide Surveillance - United States, 1987 through 1989." MMWR. 41/SS-3. May 29,1992.

[7] FBI. Uniform Crime Reports Crime in the United States 1991. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1992

[8] National Safety Council. Accident Facts 1992. Chicago: National Safety Council. 1993.

[9] Webster D, Chaulk, Teret S, and Wintemute G. "Reducing Firearm Injuries." Issues in Science and Technology. Spring 1991: 73-9.

[10] Christoffel KK. "Towards Reducing Pediatric Injuries From Firearms: Charting a Legislative and Regulatory Course." Pediatrics. 1992; 88:294-300.

[11] Federal Bureau of Investigation, US Department of Justice. Uniform Crime Reports Crime in the United States 1993. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1994. Table 5.

[12] Dawson JB aand Langan PA, US Bureau of Justice Statistics statisticians. "Murder in Families." Washington DC: Bureau of Justice Statistics, US Department of Justice. 1994. p. 5, Table 7.

[13] US Bureau of Justice Statistics. "Murder in Large Urban Counties, 1988." Washington DC: US Department of Justice. 1993.

[14] Narloch R. Criminal Homicide in California. Sacramento CA: California Bureau of Criminal Statistics. 1973. pp 53-4.

[15] Mulvihill D et al. Crimes of Violence: Report of the Task Force on Individual Acts of Violence." Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1969. p 532.

[16] Wheeler ED and Baron SA. Violence in Our Schools, Hospitals and Public Places: A Prevention and Management Guide.? Ventura CA: Pathfinder. 1993.

[17] Kellermann AL. and Reay DT. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearms-Related Deaths in the Home.? N Engl J. Med 1986. 314: 1557-60.

[18] Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home.? N Engl J Med. 1993; 329(15): 1084-91.

[19] Japenga A. "Gun Crazy.? San Francisco Examiner. This World supplement. April 3, 1994. p. 7-13 at 11.

[20] Max W and Rice DP. "Shooting in the Dark: Estimating the Cost of Firearm Injuries.? Health Affairs. 1993; 12(4): 171-85.

[21] Nieto M, Dunstan R, and Koehler GA. "Firearm-Related Violence in California: Incidence and Economic Costs.? Sacramento CA: California Research Bureau, California State Library. October 1994.

[22] McGonigal MD, Cole J, Schwab W, Kauder DR, Rotondo MF, and Angood PB. "Urban Firearms Deaths: A Five-Year Perspective.? J Trauma. 1993; 35(4): 532-36.

[23] Hutson HR, Anglin D, and Pratss MJ. "Adolescents and Children Injured or Killed in Drive-By Shootings in Los Angeles.? N Engl J Med. 1994; 330: 324-27.

[24] Zedlewski EW. Making Confinement Decisions - Research in Brief. Washington DC: National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice. July 1987.

[25] United Press. "China seizes 120,000 guns.? October 21, 1994.

[26] Cramer C and Kopel D. Concealed Handgun Permits for Licensed Trained Citizens: A Policy that is Saving Lives. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper #14-93. 1993.

[27] Cramer C and Kopel D. "Shall Issue?: The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994.

[28] Aborn R, President of Handgun Control Inc. Letter to the Editor. Washington Post. September 30, 1994.

[29] Thomson Charles, Associate Director for Law Enf


58 posted on 11/19/2001 1:44:25 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: Dan from Michigan
What a stunning sequence of non-sequitors and bait-and-switch logic.
59 posted on 11/19/2001 1:44:40 PM PST by lepton
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To: Dan from Michigan
I'd believe self-defense statistics from VPC about as much as I'd believe race statistics from the KKK.
61 posted on 11/19/2001 1:45:49 PM PST by IronJack
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To: Dan from Michigan
In fact, in 1998, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 51 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.

Apples and oranges.

63 posted on 11/19/2001 1:49:51 PM PST by Atticus
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To: Jerry_M
Something for you to think about Saturday!
64 posted on 11/19/2001 1:50:41 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: Dan from Michigan; Squantos
So if I read this right, if I am a criminal a handgun will be an extremely effective way to kill a victim, but if I am a law abiding citizen a handgun will be useless for self defense. Dan? Squantos?
65 posted on 11/19/2001 1:53:11 PM PST by TEXASPROUD
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To: Dan from Michigan
This is some of VPC's "best" work and fully up to their usual slimey standards... In fact, in 1998, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 51 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.

Since civilians kill in self defense about twice as many people each year as do police, one could reword this sentence as follows:

In fact, in 1998, for every time that a police person used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 102 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone. Clearly the existence of armed police constitutes an inadequate deterrent to gun crime, and so this country needs policies that encourage law abiding citizens to be armed.

77 posted on 11/19/2001 2:08:23 PM PST by sailor4321
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To: Dan from Michigan
I guess anyone who attacks me with a tire iron or in any other way threatening my life or that of my family while I am in possession of my .44 Mag will find out if it's ineffective or not.
78 posted on 11/19/2001 2:08:45 PM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Dan from Michigan
I'll tell you a little story of what happened to me last night. Went out to a movie and dinner with my family for my wifes birthday.

Theater was crowded, so dropped the wife and kids off at the front and went to find a parking spot, found one and parked the rig and got out of the car. There was a car behind me, the guy jumps out of his car and starts yelling at me for taking his parking spot,(this guy was no where in sight). I apologize and show him a parking space in the next lane and ask him why he doesn't park there. He starts screaming obscenities at me, goes back to his car and pulls out one of those big D cell mag lights and starts to threaten to pound me with it.

This guys is like 6 foot and 200 lbs, I am small 5'9" 140 lbs, adrenaline starts running, I tell him to calm down, get back in his car and find a parking spot, because I am not worth the time. He gets really mad and starts to come at me with that damn flashlight. I tell him that I am giving him one more warning, that he had better get in his car and leave, or I would have to defend myself. He laughed at me, and said with what, so I told him. He didn't believe me, the idiot, I actually HAD to pull the damn thing out of the holster.

He very hurriedly apologized, got back in his car and left. I got back in my car and sat there to relax and calm down a bit. He was in the theater when I got in there with the armed guard standing next to him with this "I got you now" look on his face. THe guard took me aside, asked me if I had a gun, I said yes, he said he would have to call the police. So, now the family is IN the theater watching the movie and I'm dealing with Mr. Moron, and his brother. I said fine, and he said that he wanted me to give him my gun, I told him NO, we would discuss this further when the police got there.

The police arrived in about 10 minutes, and low and behold it is an officer that I know from the local gunshop. He looks at me and smiles, then asks the original guy what happened, the guy starts telling him this sob story about how I took the parking spot and then threatened him with a gun. THe Cop looked at me and his eyebreow went up unbelievingly, then he took me aside and asked me what happened. I told him the Whole thing, he took the guy out to his car, found the mag lite, and arrested the guy for threatening me with a deadly weapon. I PRESSED charges!! The armed guard apologized and went back to work and I missed half of Monsters Inc. ARGH!!!

Sorry for the rant, but this type of attitude in the above article pisses me off, who knows what could have happened to me if I had not had my handgun and CWP. I would probably be in a hospital and the guy that did it would be sitting in his living room with a beer laughing at me. Fact is, this guy will, from now on, keep his anger in check for fear of someone pulling a gun on his butt.

Oh and it turns out that this guy has a long record of Road Rage, has beat the snot out of a few people with that damn mag lite. This is the FIRST time that I have ever had to pull my gun on anyone, I have threatened, but never pulled it, never had to.

An armed society is a polite society, and if a person is dumb enough to buy a handgun without the proper training, well, sorry, that's their probelm. Don't take my rights away, because some Moron has killed themselves with a weapon they didn't know how to use!!
81 posted on 11/19/2001 2:11:45 PM PST by Aric2000
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