What is "Palaeo"conservatism?

My own questions | november 13, 2001 | Me

[Zionist Conspirator]

I do not post these musings of mine to be disagreeable or provocative, but I simply do not understand the consistent inconsistencies of "palaeo"conservatives. And I am not referring to their position on Communist Arabs vis a vis their position on every other Communist in the world. I am referring to something far more basic.

I do not understand someone calling himself a "palaeo"conservative who then invokes "liberty," "rights," etc., for the very simple reason that "palaeo"conservatism connotes a European-style conservatism that opposes these very things in the name of Throne and Altar. So why do our disciples of Joseph de la Maistre pose as followers of Murray Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Ludwig von Mises, or Friedrich von Hayek?

I don't know. Honestly. I'm asking.

True, Charley Reese and Joseph Sobran (unlike their more honest and consistent fellow, Pat Buchanan) pose as across-the-board individualist Jeffersonian ideologues. But truly consistern libertarians, even the most "rightwing," took positions on civil rights and the new left in the Sixties that were (and are) anathema to some of these fellow travellers. I recently went to a libertarian site (this one here) where I was impressed with the fearless consistency of a true libertarian, such as Rothbard. I urge interested parties to read some of Rothbard's writings here (particularly "Liberty and the New Left") and honestly ask themselves if they can imagine "libertarians" like Sobran or Reese (or their supporters here at FR) saying such things.

Imagine, for example, the following quotation from Rothbard, from the article just cited:

It is no wonder then that, confronted by the spectre of this Leviathan, many people devoted to the liberty of the individual turned to the Right-wing, which seemed to offer a groundwork for saving the individual from this burgeoning morass. But the Right-wing, by embracing American militarism and imperialism, as well as police brutality against the Negro people, faced the most vital issues of our time . . . and came down squarely on the side of the State and agaisnt the person. The torch of liberty against the Establishment passed therefore to the New Left.

Okay, the militarism/imperialism quote is right in character, but can you honestly imagine Sobran saying such things about "police brutality against the Negro people" or heaping such praises on the New Left in an address before Mississippi's "Council of Conservative Citizens?" Or Reese saying such things before a League of the South convention???

Something doesn't fit here.

The thing is, the "palaeo"right has roots going back to the turn-of-the-century European right (eg, Action Francaise) as well as to the Austrian school of economics. In fact, sometimes these roots jump out from the midst of libertarian rhetoric--for example, when someone stops thumping the First Amendment long enough to bemoan the subversive, rootless, cosmopolitan nature of international capitalism (and surely no one expects libertarian Austrian economics to create a Pat Buchanan-style monocultural country!), or to defend Salazar Portugal or Vichy France.

In short, what we are faced with here is the same situation as on the Left, where unwashed, undisciplined, excrement-throwing hippies rioted in favor of the ultra-orderly goose-stepping military dictatorships in Cuba and Vietnam. In each case--Left and Right--the American section advocated positions that the mother movement in the mother country would not tolerate. For one thing, Communist countries exploit and use totalitarian patriotism; no one in Cuba burns the Cuban flag and gets away with it, I guarantee. Yet partisans of nationalist-communist Cuba advocate the "right" of Americans to burn their national flag. And can anyone imagine what Franco or Salazar would have done to some dissident spouting Rothbard's rhetoric back in Iberia in the 1950's or 60's? Yet once again, a philosophy alien to the mother country is seized upon by native Falangists as the essence of the movement.

I don't get it. Palaeos, like Leftists, don't seem to be able to make up their minds. Are they in favor of or opposed to "rights liberalism?" Do they dream of a reborn medieval European chr*stendom, or a reborn early-federal-period enlightenment/Masonic United States of America? Do they want a virtually nonexistent government or something like the strong, paternalistic governments of Franco, Salazar, and Petain that will preserve the purity of the ethnoculture? Or they for or against free trade? (It is forgotten by today's Buchananite Confederacy-partisans that "free trade" was one of the doctrines most dear to the real Confederacy.) Are you for Jeffersonial localism or against it when a Hispanic border town votes to make Spanish (the language of Franco!) its official language?

I wonder if I could possibly be more confused than you yourselves seem to be.

Honestly, it does sometimes seem that the issue that defines "palaeo"ism is hostility to Israel. Why else would someone like "Gecko," a FReeper who openly admired 19th Century German "conservatism," which he admitted was a form of state socialism, be considered a member of the family by "disciples of Ludwig von Mises?" None of this makes any sense at all.

As a final postscript, I must add once more that I am myself a "palaeo" in all my instincts (except that I don't go around advocating a Biblical Theocracy for Israel and a Masonic republic for the United States, nor do I brandish the Bill of Rights like an ACLU lawyer). Whatever the intrinsic opposition between palaeoconservatism (at least of the more honest de la Maistre variety) and a reborn Halakhic Torah state based on the Throne and Altar in Jerusalem, I have never been able to discover them. I guess the rest of you know something I don't (although it sure as heck ain't the Bible). If there is some law requiring "true" palaeoconservatism to be based on European idealist philosophy, Hellenistic philosophy, or Austrian libertarian economics rather than the Divinely-Dictated Word of the Creator, I would like to hear about it. All I know is the rest of you "palaeos" seem to take hostility to Judaism (not just Zionism and Israel but Judaism itself) as a given for anyone who wants to be a member of the "club." And you seem to have a mutual agreement to act as though Biblical Fundamentalist Zionism didn't exist and that all sympathy for Israel originated in the philosophy of former Trotskyist/globalist/capitalist/neoconservatism (which is confusing because according to libertarianism capitalism is good). I have moreover learned from past experience that if I question any of you about your position on the Bible you ignore it with a smirk I can practically feel coming out of the monitor.

My attitude is as follows: for true libertarians who are actually sincere and consistent I have a deep respect, even though I disagree with you philosophy. For people who insist that one should be required to oppose the existence of a Jewish State on the ancient 'Eretz Yisra'el in order to even consider himself a conservative, you can all boil in hot excrement, since I have no desire to belong to your loathsome `Amaleq-spawned society. I simply wish I could understand why conservatism--which to me has always meant an acknowledgement of the Jewish G-d and His Word--has spawned so many people whose fundamental outlook is so diametrically opposed to this.

At any rate, while I do not expect any other than taunting, smart-aleck replies, I will most assuredly listen with an open mind to any explanation of the otherwise inexplicable Franco/Ayn Rand connection.

[TopQuark]

Congratulations All!

For creating and perpetuating the most mature discussion/debate I have yet seen on FR.

If only more of the posts concerning Israel, Political Philosophy labels/definitions, Personalities, etc. could be so polite and erudite.

Bump! My feelings exactly. Sorry I can't contribute, but many thanks to the participants; I learned quite a bit.

[gcruse]

Well, If that's the best explanation you can come up with,
I am content to let your obscurity reign.

[TopQuark]

Micheal Medved ( who is Jewish) said it's pretentious to say Jews do not have control of the media apparatus in America.

I doubt very much he has said that. But, more to the point, could you define "control," please?
It is clear that, since the World War II, Jews and those of Jewish decent have visible presence in our culture. Is mere presence in something also control of that entity? If not, what is?

[Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi]

bump.

Good question. Generally speaking, there are several varieties and the term is a comparative one. "Palaeo-conservatives," while embracing modern constitutionalism, are critical of the Enlightenment as well as of levelling and socialistic corruptions of mass, secular liberal democracy. The idea is that political problems and civil society are rooted in cultural traditions and codes which transcend any re-shaping by centralist statism. Most palaeos are Burkean conservatives and Christians. Some seek aristocratic and traditional Christian understandings of culture in priority to the expansion of the modern state, secularist ideologies, and social engineering. British conservatives ("Tories"), some U.S. conservatives, Catholics, Anglicans, and a wide variety of conservatives in Europe fall within the palaeo orbit. You can find these trends among some contemporary U.S. conservatives. One of the central ideas is that many of the most important aspects of Westen society should not be subjected to ideological and statist manipulation. These include the family, private property, religion, education, fine arts, and culture in general.

[JMJ333]

Micheal Medved ( who is Jewish) said it's pretentious to say Jews do not have control of the media apparatus in America.

Cite please.

BTW, UPI and AP are Saudi owned. Perhaps you too need a beanie?

[Valin]

What the hell does the above mean?

nonsectatian prayer, the golden rule? The sort of public religon we get from senate chaplins etc. Just a guess on my part.

[JMJ333]

So the Saudis owning UPI and AP is really a trick by the mossad? Maybe its actually a Jewish woman who owns them both, and we can chalk it up to it all being a mossad honey trap.

[Valin]

It is clear that, since the World War II, Jews and those of Jewish decent have visible presence in our culture.

For more I would recomend Thomas Sowells Race and Culture.

[Valin]

All I was doing was trying to answer his question. I'm sitting trying to understand your hostile reply to my reply.
As to your question why the "religious right" is feared moral absolutes would be my guess. That and some Christians act more than a little loony.

[JMJ333]

We all know the press is Liberal, but to say that its a mass Jewish conspiracy is to show your ignorance on a major scale.

To give a slight hint of what the pro-Islamic media doesn't mention...

The 1.5 south Sudanese, mostly Christian, that were genocidally starved or tortured to death by the Arab Moslem government of Northern Sudan in Khartoum. Another half million are expected to die in the next year because of this continuing purge by the fanatic moslem government presided over by the fanatic Iranian-backed Moslem government of Omar Bashir and the leader of the National Islamic front, Hassan Turabi. No, the media is too busy recounting votes in Florida and trying their best to insinuate that Gore won.

No, Mr. Conspiracy theorist--its Saudi Arabia that bankrolls its interest groups such as the Becthel Corporation, but also the media in the Christian west--Europe and America. Former Italian President Berlusconi [in July of 1995] sold a 20% stake in his television and advertising empire to an internation consortium comprised of Saudi Prince Waleed bin Talal and South African businessman Johann Rupert.

The Saudis also own inumerable newspapers, radio and tv networks throughout Europe and worldwide. UPI is owned by Islamic petrodollars, as is AP. Saudi money pays for much of the advertising on CNN, and causes a tilting toward those who are paying.

That is why instead of reorting on the clear indicators that were pointing toward an attack by Islamic fanatics on our soil, they were giving us Gary Condit all the time. You want to be lulled into thinking its the Jews? Go ahead. I think its foolish, especially in light of their silence of the media bias in the Balkans, their silence in the Sudan, the silence of what's happening in Greece [who incidentally feel surrounded by islamic militants] and countless other examples.

I could go on if you wish...