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Apologizing For Bible Truth ?
The Baptist Bible Trumpet ^ | Nov 2001 | Steven Mays

Posted on 11/06/2001 3:04:47 PM PST by Church Lady

Apologizing for Bible Truth?

A few weeks ago Jerry Falwell apologized for the comments he made while he was being interviewed by Pat Robertson. What did Jerry Falwell say that was so awful?

Based on the response he's received you would have thought that he blasphemed God, or denied the virgin birth, or burned the American flag publicly. After all, Pat Robertson, Cal Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, even President Bush vehemently condemned what he said. Whatever he said must have really been awful because he came out quickly and apologized. What did he say? He said that the sins and wickedness of people in our nation are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins. This "horrible" statement brought the wrath of so-called "Christian" leaders, not to mention the White House, down upon him. That's it folks.

Since he has retracted his statement and apologized for it, I want to go on record today as saying, "The sins and wickedness of people in America are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. Specifically, I believe several national sins such as the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle, the home wrecking, God-denying, feminist movement, the millions of abortions performed annually, as well as the compromising, worldly churches are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation."

I was taught to believe that righteousness exalts a nation and sin brings reproach to any nation. Therefore I do not expect to make any apologies for the statements I have just made.

If George Washington were alive today I don't think he would be apologizing for Jerry's statements. He once said, "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be apologizing. He once said, "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble For my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

I wrote last month that our nation's political leaders are just a reflection of our nation's pulpits' leaders. Mr. Falwell's apology just proves my point. Politicians as a rule don't seem to have a backbone, but neither do most preachers.

Remember the words of Isaiah 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" We won't apologize for God's Truth and then expect God to bless America. Mr. Falwell, you had it right-you had no business apologizing.

Pastor Steven E. Mays - Trumpet Editor


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: falwell
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To: jlogajan
Jlogajan, you speak in too wide an area. Give specifics, what flaws in the Bible offend you, dont give your patented generalized critisism, support your claims with intelligent examples, if your able.
281 posted on 11/08/2001 6:27:11 AM PST by marcde
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To: newgeezer
I know there was a time when Benny Hinn was in error in his teachings but he repented of that. What is there about Benny that bothers you now?
282 posted on 11/08/2001 6:31:32 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: Marysecretary
I know there was a time when Benny Hinn was in error in his teachings but he repented of that. What is there about Benny that bothers you now?

Mary...that man is a charlatan.Do you really believe him?

283 posted on 11/08/2001 8:40:08 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Marysecretary
I know there was a time when Benny Hinn was in error in his teachings but he repented of that.

This is news to me. When and where?

284 posted on 11/08/2001 9:07:46 AM PST by newgeezer
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To: jlogajan
And they are?
285 posted on 11/08/2001 10:27:02 AM PST by svcw
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To: marcde
Errors in the Bible

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Jesus is talking of signs that will happen before the end of the world to his disciples)

(Notice: Jesus probably thought the stars were little lights attached to a solid rotating sky dome like everyone else at that time)

(Mat 24:29 NRSV) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; *the stars will fall from heaven*, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

(Mat 24:30 NRSV) Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory.

(Jesus now says to his disciples that their generation will not pass away before the end of the world)

(Mat 24:34 NRSV) Truly I tell you, *this generation will not pass away* until all these things have taken place.

(Their generation did pass away, but the world didn't end)

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Jesus tells his disciples that those "who believe" can heal, handle snakes, cast demons out, speak in tongues, and drink poison.

(Mark 16:17-18 NRSV) And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

they will pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

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The Exodus story is almost certainly a fabrication or at least extremely exaggerated.

The bible says 600,000 men (hopefully accompanied by an equal number of women), children, and a "mixed" crowd supposedly left Egypt.

(Exo 12:37-38 NRSV) The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about *six hundred thousand men* on foot, besides children. A mixed crowd also went...

This is somewhere around 1.5 million people (more than live in the city of Dallas).

It is very unlikely that the Egyptians kept 1.5 million people enslaved, controlled, and fed.

It is also very unlikely that hundreds of thousands of Israelites wandered around on foot in a desert region with little food or water for 40 years after they left.

There is no record anywhere of Egypt ever enslaving the Israelites. There is no archaeological evidence to support the Israelites being in Egypt.

It is well established that the Egyptians themselves built all their cities and monuments during the off season (farming).

There is no record in Egypt of 1.5 million people suddenly getting up and leaving (The Egyptians were meticulous record keepers).

There is no archaeological evidence of anything more than a few scattered encampments in the wilderness where supposedly at least hundreds of thousands wandered and died in the bible.

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Jesus was just a mortal man who had no special knowledge of modern cosmology. Here are some verses that indicate this:

(Jesus is talking about the end of the world) (Mat 24:29 NRSV) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; *the stars will fall* from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

Jesus is obviously talking about stars (to him little lights) falling from the sky (to him just a few miles up) down to earth.

This was entirely feasible to people of his time as they did not know that the stars are hugh celestial objects like our sun (many, many times larger than the earth) that were unimaginably distant.

We know today that stars are suns that are at such distances that light takes dozens to hundreds of thousands of years to travel to us.

Even if they could travel instantaneously to earth, they could not "fall to earth" as they are up to millions of times larger than the earth.

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Here is the certainly mythical story of how Jonah lived inside of a fish for three days:

(Jonah 1:17 NRSV) But the LORD provided a large fish to swallow up Jonah; and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Lets assume that the story was talking about a whale which was incorrectly identified as a fish by this tale and that the whale would have some interest in swallowing a person whole, let's look at some of the other ways this is fiction:

a) No oxygen.

b) Lot of poisonous digestive juices.

c) No drinkable water.

d) A whale has an enormously fast digestive system.

The Bible goes on to tell of how God "talks" to the "fish" and the "fish" "spews" the man on to dry land.

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The test in the Garden of Eden myth, was not a fair test considering it requires the knowledge of good and evil to not do something evil, yet this is what eating the fruit was supposed to give to the couple.

(Gen 2:25 NRSV) And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.

(After eating the forbidden fruit)

(Gen 3:10-11 NRSV) (Adam) He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."

(God) "Who told you that you were naked?

Not knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5), they did something evil so God punished them...

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The bible's primitive astronomy provides a longer day to complete the killing of all the Amorite men, women, and children.

Joshua realized that he wasn't going to have enough time to completely slaughter all of the Amorites (even with God helping by throwing boulders from the sky to crush the people that were fleeing) so he commanded the Sun to stand still in the sky over Gibeon and the Moon to stand still over the valley of Aijalon.

The author of Joshua like everyone else in his day was unaware of the earth's rotation and thought the Sun went around the earth and that the Sun and Moon were only a few miles up in the sky, hence the command to make them stand still over certain topographic features of the earth.

These very verses were used by the Church against Galileo when he suggested that the earth turned instead:

(Josh 10:12-13 NRSV) On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still *at Gibeon*, and Moon, *in the valley of Aijalon*."

And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.

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Here is the dream of Nebuchadnezzar as the author of the book of Daniel imagined it. The author imagined a tree growing from the center of a flat earth and it reached the sky which in his day was thought to be just a few miles high. The tree was visible to the "ends" of the flat earth.

(Dan 4:10 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great.

The word hebrew word for earth here is ara:

772. 'ara', (Chald.), ar-ah'; corresp. to H776; the earth; by impl. (fig.) low:--earth, inferior

(Dan 4:11 NRSV) The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.

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According to the bible, Ahaziah was 2 years older than his father Jehoram.

(Jehoram was inflicted with a disease by God that killed him after an eight year reign)

(2 Chr 21:20 NRSV) (Jehoram) He was *thirty-two* years old when he began to reign; he reigned *eight years* in Jerusalem. ... They buried him in the city of David...

So Jehoram died at the age of forty.

(2 Chr 22:1 NRSV) The inhabitants of Jerusalem made his *youngest* son Ahaziah king as his successor; for the troops who came with the Arabs to the camp had killed all the *older* sons. So Ahaziah son of Jehoram reigned as king of Judah.

(2 Chr 22:2 NRSV) Ahaziah was *forty-two* years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. ...

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The bible incorrectly says there are 4 legged insects. There are no insects anywhere that have 4 legs.

(Lev 11:20-21 NRSV) All winged insects that walk upon all fours are detestable to you.

But among the winged insects that walk on all fours you may eat those that have jointed legs above their feet, with which to leap on the ground.

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The bible incorrectly states that rabbits (hares) chew their cud.

(Deu 14:7 NRSV) Yet of those that chew the cud or have the hoof cleft you shall not eat these: the camel, the hare, and the rock badger, because they chew the cud but do not divide the hoof; they are unclean for you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here again the bible seems to be saying that the earth is flat.

Here are more verses describing it as God "drawing" a flat 2 dimensional circle on the *face* of the waters to make the earth.

(Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,

(Job 26:10 NRSV) He has described a circle on the face of the waters, at the boundary between light and darkness.

(Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the *circle of the earth*, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;

The hebrew word for circle here is chuwg

2329. chuwg, khoog; from H2328; a circle:--circle, circuit, compass

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Problems with the story of the tower of Babel (A myth to explain why there are different languages).

(Gen 11:4-7 NRSV) Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens,

(Like most people in their time, the authors of Genesis thought that the sky was a dome that was just a few miles up)

and let us make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

(If they don't make a name for themselves they will be scattered, this sounds fairly contrived so far)

The LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which mortals had built.

(The Lord had to "come down" cause he was "up" in heaven not omni- present, but imagined as anthropomorphic to this author. Also he had to come down because he *couldn't see the city and the tower* from where he was?)

And the LORD said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

(God is afraid of these people when all they are doing is building. Look at the pyramids in Egypt and Central America, and the structures *high* in the Andies mountains by the Incas, and the sky scrapers we build today. There hasn't been any apparent divine intervention to spoil these projects yet)

Come, let us go down, and confuse their language there, so that they will not understand one another's speech."

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Jesus incorrectly said that he was mention by Moses in his law.

(Luke 24:44 NRSV) Then he said to them, "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you--that everything written about me in the law of Moses,...

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Jesus incorrectly states that noone has ascended into heaven except the "Son of Man".

(John 3:13 NRSV) No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

(John 3:15 NRSV) that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

(here is Elijah *ascending* to heaven)

(2 Ki 2:11 NRSV) As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah *ascended in a whirlwind into heaven*.

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The author of Matthew says there are 42 generations from Abraham to Jesus.

(Mat 1:17 NRSV) So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the Messiah fourteen generations. (3 x 14 = 42)

The number of generations he actually lists is instead 41.

Matthew 1rst chapter:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Abraham Isaac Jacob Judah Perez Hezron Aram 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Aminadab Nahshon Salmon Boaz Obed Jesse King David.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Solomon Rehoboam Abijah Asaph Jehoshaphat Joram Uzziah 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Jotham Ahaz Hezekiah Manasseh Amos Josiah Jechoniah

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Salathiel Zerubbabel Abiud Eliakim Azor Zadok Achim 8 9 10 11 12 13 Eliud Eleazar Matthan Jacob Joseph Jesus

14+14+13 = 41

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Jesus quotes another scripture that doesn't exist in the canonized bible.

(John 7:38 NRSV) and let the one who believes in me drink. As the scripture has said, 'Out of the believer's heart shall flow rivers of living water.'"

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Paul gives a list of things that supposedly indicate the "last days", but the things he listed are things that are continually going on all the time.

(2 Tim 3:1-5 NRSV) You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come.

For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

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Jesus lists things that supposedly indicate the "last days", but his list is of things that are continually going on throughout history..

(Matthew 24:3-14)

When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus answered them, "Beware that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah!' and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs. "Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, as a testimony to all the nations; and then the end will come. ...

(Here is the only specific thing Jesus says and it is right before the specific "coming on the clouds of heaven")

(Matthew 24:29) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

(Again vauge nonspecific things that have been going on throughout all history (except for the Messiah statement which has only been going on since the Babylonian Exile ~2500 years ago)

Preachers have been using vauge "signs" ever since Jesus to claim that their generation will be the last one. This has been going on for centuries and is being claimed today.

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Here is Satan telling Jesus (who was supposed to be God and owner of the world according to christian religions) to worship him and he will "give" him the world?

(Mat 4:8 NRSV) Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor;

(Only possible on a flat earth, which the authors of the synoptic Gospels must have imagined)

(Mat 4:9 NRSV) and he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."

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The Deuteronomist outlaws foreign sorcery, but the bible authors use a multitude of their own sorcerers (called prophets) to contact a supernatural power (their god) and to attempt to determine the future.

(Deu 18:10 NRSV) No one shall be found among you who makes a son or daughter pass through fire, or who *practices divination*, or is a soothsayer, or an augur, or a *sorcerer*,

"Sorcerer practices" or "Divination and Magic" From Holman's Bible Dictionary:

An attempt to contact supernatural powers to determine answers to questions hidden to humans and usually involving the future.

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Jesus here is simply wrong, a man can serve several masters and hate all of them or love all of them.

Even though this is just an analogy, an analogy is suppose to draw a parallel from something that makes sense.

(Mat 6:24 NRSV) "No one can serve two masters; for a slave will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. ...

(Mat 6:24 NRSV) ... You cannot serve God and wealth.

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The Apostle Peter (like the author of Matthew does many times) takes an Old Testament verse out of it's context to try to make it seem as though it was forecasting a future event.

Some observers see people acting funny, speaking in tongues that they are not capable of (this feat is never duplicated in modern day Assembly of God churches) during their "filling of the Holy Spirit" at the "Pentecost".

They then conclude they are all drunk.

Peter tells them that they aren't drunk, but they are filled with the Holy Spirit, that is why they are acting strange.

(Acts 2:15-16 NRSV) Indeed, these are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only nine o'clock in the morning. No, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:

(Peter then goes on to quote the prophet Joel, claiming that this filling of the spirit means they are in the "last days" before the coming of the "great day of the Lord".

A) The prophet Joel was making another vauge prediction about how Judah and Israel are going to get back together and of a great war that the Jews would have with many nations of which only they will survive (this is Joel's "Lord's great and glorious day"). Of course this prophecy failed because it never happened. (Joel 2:28 - 3:21)

B) Peter was wrong as this has nothing to do with the Pentecost or Jesus.

C) Peter takes this prediction and turns it into a validation that they were in the last days before Jesus was to come back which was his "Lord's great and glorious day" (because it mentions a "filling of a spirit" and "prophesying".

D) It was natural for Peter and the Apostle Paul in his letters to assume this because Jesus himself said he would come back before all of the disciples had died. (Mat 16:28)

E) Jesus never came back, not then, and not in the almost 2000 years since, so Peter was wrong about them being in the "last days".

(Acts 2:17 NRSV) 'In the last days it will be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall ...

...

(Acts 2:19-20 NRSV) And I will show portents in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and smoky mist.

The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the coming of the Lord's great and glorious day.

286 posted on 11/08/2001 11:12:18 AM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
I'm impressed, you had the courage to spell out your concerns this time. Much of your huge statement is insinuating banter, Biblically taken completely out of context. Where to start is my question. First off, you portray Christ as just a man, He was also God, therefore He knew very well the make-up of stars and how far from the earth they were. As for the stars falling from heaven, Jesus said in the end the heavens shall fall away as a rolled up scroll, all will dissapear as smoke dissapates. The generation Christ was referring to was the generation that would inhabit the earth in those last days, not his disciples and thier generation. In Acts 28:5, Paul handled a viper without incident, many demons were cast out by his disciples and many people were healed. The exodus was immpossible you say, immpossible for a God? While in the wilderness the Isrealites were cared for by God. The reason Pharoh enslaved the Hebrews was fear, the Hebrews had grown so abundantly prosperous in the land of Egypt Pharoh was afraid they would upset the balance, so he enslaved them. This was approximately 400 years after Joseph had been such a respected man in Egyptian society. As for archeological evidence, I'm not sure your right, but look at it this way, there's even less evidence(tangible) to support evolution, yet you claim it true, we believers are owed some slack on that one. Now we get to Jonah, you say a fish could'nt possibly swallow a man, there have been reports of catfish as big as cars in the Mississippi, as far as staying alive in the fish, I'm sure an all powerful God would have no problem sustaining a man's life while in a fish for three days. God created the fish, why could he not command it to do what he wants? The test in the garden of Eden, what test? There was no test, it was a situation that developed out of mans disobedience. God told Adam not to eat from the tree, Adam did, case closed. In Joshua's case the moon and sun stopping to give him more time to battle his enemies, you can't be naive enough to think a God that created all you know and see, including the moon and sun would'nt have the ability to do with them as he wished? The true creator of the universe is not held by the same physical laws you and I are. In Nebuchadnezzar's dream where does it say flat earth? The tree could be seen from all ends of the earth because it was a dream, anything can take place in a dream. Just for reference sake, people used to say the Bible was flawed because the earth was flat, and Job refers to the earth as a sphere 2500 years before Columbus found out the earth really was a sphere. In 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah is said to be 22 years old when he took the throne. several hundred years ago noone knew dinosaurs existed, how do you know there were not four legged insects in Biblical times? Perhaps insects evolved from four legs to many, this would support your claim of proven evolution. Hares are much larger than domestic rabbits, have you ever noticed how rabbits are continuously moving thier jaws or chewing? How do you figure God was afraid of man because they built the tower of Babel? The tower was a testament to mans own greatness, let us make a tower who's top is in the heavens, let us make a name for ourselves, the tower should have been a testament to the living God, instead once again man trusts in his own great achievment and ability. As far as God not being omnipresent in this situation, thats ridiculous, God saw the tower from the heavens and knew what was taking place all along. Jesus said he was spoken of by moses, the prophets and the psalms, this is a way to describe the entire old testament which points to Christ as the coming Messiah, Jesus did'nt incorrectly say anything, he was spoken of by Moses. Elijah and Enoch were the two men who have escaped death, they were taken up into heaven, when Christ says noone ascended into heaven but the son of man, I believe he's speaking of ascending from whence he came , his throne, no man can ascend to Christ's throne. I'll answer the rest of your challenge tomorrow. It seems you read through the Bible with ignorance and arrogance looking for an argument, you might try bowing your head in humility and asking for the truth some time, otherwise He won't do a thing for your heart or your mind.
287 posted on 11/08/2001 2:19:06 PM PST by marcde
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To: marcde
Poser, I have a rational legitimate question for you. A society that incorporates into law the acceptance and promotion of behaviors and practices that run completely contrary to logic and simple truth, does such a society deserve the protection of a holy supreme being? This same being who provides this protection is also forced out of all public domain along with his principles. Does this society deserve his protection?

I don't buy the premise that God is protecting anybody. It's pretty clear that evil people have little trouble killing the righteous. Fortunately, I live in a country where the evil people are vastly outnumbered.

I have yet to see any evidence that God ever protects anybody, or cares, or exists.
288 posted on 11/11/2001 4:29:08 PM PST by Poser
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Comment #289 Removed by Moderator

To: Church Lady
I have a feeling this PC world is just going to love the two prophets of Revealtion when they show up. Can you just imagine?

It is very hard for people who have been sleeping for generations to wake and ask "Where was God on 9-11?", no one feels that the people in that tower, just trying to raise families and do their jobs, deserved to have that protection removed from them. Where they bigger sinners than the rest of us? Was there really that much sin in their lives? Of course not, in fact, as in all horrible events, the best and most noble of human nature came out in the victims and the survivors. Satan is a ravening lion seeking who he can destroy, and the innocent bystander or helpless child is his favorite target, and he is more and more in charge here, just as scriptures said he would be.

My question is, why the sudden interest by unbelievers in God and why he "allowed" this to happen? Do they need someone to blame, or is 9-11 a good opportunity to vent their unbelief? We live in a world of free choice, and physics, three plane loads of morons chose to rip the controls from the pilots and crash their planes into the Towers and the Pentagon. It would be a very strange world if everyone about to be hit by a bus were jerked to safety by an unseen hand. We are subject to die in the next minute, all of us, no one is assured of their next breath.

This world is going to go the way the Bible says it will go, winding it's way to the end, the United States is not immune from attacks of evil, or maybe unbelievers think we are so good that it isn't fair to be exposed to horror, when it is their very unbelief that is the problem here, because Satan is more than happy to rush into any void and fill it. So everyone has a choice here, and there is no fence sitting allowed, fill that void with God, or Satan will fill it for you.

290 posted on 11/26/2001 10:05:39 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Church Lady
Thank you for your courageous post. (As always, the Christo-phobes so quickly scent blood).

As a Christian, I do not think "sins such as the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle, the home wrecking, God-denying, feminist movement, the millions of abortions performed annually, as well as the compromising, worldly churches" were the specific cause of the 9-11 attacks.

However, I understand Falwell's attempt to call people in this nation to repentance. Old Testament prophets used to do the exact same thing, with varying success, since man's heart is often closed to that which is true but undesired.

Best thing that we as a church can do now is pray. Never ceasing. :)

Psalm 5
"Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my sighing.
Listen to my cry for help, my King and my God, for to you I pray.
In the morning, O LORD, you hear my voice; in the morning I lay my requests before you and wait in expectation.
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.
You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.
But I, by your great mercy, will come into your house; in reverence will I bow down toward your holy temple.
Lead me, O LORD, in your righteousness because of my enemies-- make straight your way before me.
Not a word from their mouth can be trusted; their heart is filled with destruction. Their throat is an open grave; with their tongue they speak deceit.
Declare them guilty, O God! Let their intrigues be their downfall. Banish them for their many sins, for they have rebelled against you.
But let all who take refuge in you be glad; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them, that those who love your name may rejoice in you.
For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield."

291 posted on 11/26/2001 10:28:19 PM PST by k2blader
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To: Church Lady
Well..I certainly don't agree with homosexuality because it goes against the natural use of the body...BUT...it was the self-righteous hypocrites who were on the receiving end of Jesus's anger.
292 posted on 11/26/2001 10:45:19 PM PST by Aerial
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Comment #293 Removed by Moderator

To: Bullish
What a meaningful reply.
294 posted on 11/27/2001 4:52:30 AM PST by OWK
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To: Church Lady
Proving bible truth??
295 posted on 11/27/2001 4:55:58 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: OWK
Very nice, thanx.
296 posted on 11/27/2001 6:15:51 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: OWK
Why do you mock anyones religious faith?
What's it to you? Why should you care on this board what anyone believes abot GOD? Why should you care about anyone having a personal saviour. Why does it bother you that people want to believe they can have a good place to go when they or their loved one dies?

Why can't you live and let live when it comes to something so personal? Believe what you want, it's wrong to mock their GOD, and that goes for any faith.

Christians and patrons of other faiths believe they are called to spread the word about their faith. But you seem to just want to dash anyones hope for anything spiritual, and in the worst way. You really seem to be dedicated to it. Your like a grown man wanting to tell 3 yr olds there's no Santa Claus.

Can I ask you a question? What did GOD or the belief in GOD ever do to harm you?

297 posted on 11/27/2001 6:08:49 PM PST by Bullish
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To: Church Lady
He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins. This "horrible" statement brought the wrath of so-called "Christian" leaders, not to mention the White House, down upon him. That's it folks.

It is also true that there is time for everything. And Fallwell has chosen to say what he said at a bad time.

298 posted on 11/27/2001 6:13:09 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: WRhine
Rats, I always miss all the fun threads. Sigh! :)
299 posted on 11/27/2001 6:21:16 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: Church Lady
Amen!, preach it.
300 posted on 11/27/2001 6:37:30 PM PST by RMrattlesnake
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