Apologizing For Bible Truth ?

The Baptist Bible Trumpet ^ | Nov 2001 | Steven Mays

[Church Lady]

Apologizing for Bible Truth?

A few weeks ago Jerry Falwell apologized for the comments he made while he was being interviewed by Pat Robertson. What did Jerry Falwell say that was so awful?

Based on the response he's received you would have thought that he blasphemed God, or denied the virgin birth, or burned the American flag publicly. After all, Pat Robertson, Cal Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, even President Bush vehemently condemned what he said. Whatever he said must have really been awful because he came out quickly and apologized. What did he say? He said that the sins and wickedness of people in our nation are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins. This "horrible" statement brought the wrath of so-called "Christian" leaders, not to mention the White House, down upon him. That's it folks.

Since he has retracted his statement and apologized for it, I want to go on record today as saying, "The sins and wickedness of people in America are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. Specifically, I believe several national sins such as the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle, the home wrecking, God-denying, feminist movement, the millions of abortions performed annually, as well as the compromising, worldly churches are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation."

I was taught to believe that righteousness exalts a nation and sin brings reproach to any nation. Therefore I do not expect to make any apologies for the statements I have just made.

If George Washington were alive today I don't think he would be apologizing for Jerry's statements. He once said, "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be apologizing. He once said, "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble For my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

I wrote last month that our nation's political leaders are just a reflection of our nation's pulpits' leaders. Mr. Falwell's apology just proves my point. Politicians as a rule don't seem to have a backbone, but neither do most preachers.

Remember the words of Isaiah 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" We won't apologize for God's Truth and then expect God to bless America. Mr. Falwell, you had it right-you had no business apologizing.

Pastor Steven E. Mays - Trumpet Editor

[RnMomof7]

Sure your name isnt Baal?

[Belial]

We are damned by our sin.. there is no man that can stand in Gods presence without the Grace and Mercy of God.

No. I don't know you, but chances are you are a good person who tries to make the world better.

Many of my liberal friends are similarly driven. They see a tiny fraction of the world hoarding most of the resources and feel deeply guilty to exist.

Guilt can be useful if it drives you to make the world better, but why take it to such absurd lengths?

[Belial]

The question itself impunes the very character of God. It implies that God is not good but rather some kind of sadistic monster. This crap comes from the Devil.

Except the Devil is not coequal with God. God created the Devil, knowing beforehand that this particular angel named Lucifer would revolt. He knew beforehand the Devil would lead many to damnation, and allowed it.

[Jorge]

After all, God created mankind, and told them not to eat from the Tree. Since he's omniscient he knew they would. When they did he had to act really angry, condemn them to pain, death and all kinds of suffering.

The implication being that to have foreknowledge of an event makes one (God) responsible for it happening.
Supposedly God should have seen this...revoked man's free will and made all men souless robots.

And because He didn't do this, he is therefore responsible for every evil choice any person makes.

This is of course an example of blaming God for being good and gracious in giving man free will..somehow makes God evil. Once again, this warped logic comes straight from the pit of Hell.

Even after man abused his freedom to rebel against God..He took man's deserved punishment Himself, in order to buy and offer salvation freely ..in order to redeem man.
God is more than good.

[Belial]

Hey, I'm far from perfect myself, but I bet if I were on the throne I could devise a human race that had free will, and still didn't end up with most of the people tortured by demons for eternity.

That sounds more like a primitive sadistic fantasy than the plan of a perfect being.

[Jorge]

God created the Devil, knowing beforehand that this particular angel named Lucifer would revolt. He knew beforehand the Devil would lead many to damnation, and allowed it.

God did NOT create the Devil. God created Lucifer...and once again you mistakenly equate foreknowledge of an event with responsibility for causing the event.
You completely discount free will and personal responsibility..and prefer to blame everything on God.
This sort of pretzel logic come straight from the Devil..and will not clear anyone of responsibility before God. You're wasting your time.

[Belial]

You're ignoring the fact that God knew how Lucifer would use his free will. Giving God a choice...should I allow Lucifer to exist or not? God knows everyone's choices in advance, supposedly.

[Jorge]

"The Bible does not state anywhere, that God smashes airplanes loaded with innocent women and children into the side of the World Trade Center..."

Neither did Jerry Falwell.

What he said is that God has lifted his protecting hand from this country, and current events have certainly proven him correct in that assertion.

By the same token we could say that the Christians jailed, persecuted and executed by these same militant Islam extremists...received the same judgement..and events have "certainly proven" this to be correct.

And when Hitler overran Poland, France etc...and murdered millions of helpless people..we should have just stood by and watch a made our pious pronouncements that these events proved they must have provoked God and He removed His hand of protection. Gag me with a spoon!
These kind of perverse self-righteous applications of scripture are sickening.
Pray for the Pharisees in this thread.

[WRhine]

What seems to be outside the "realm" of your understanding is that the entire premise of such a question is erroneous. God doesn't create people with the purpose of damning them. God creates people with free will, and the ability to choose their destiny...essentially to accept or reject Him.

Where is the problem? Belial asked why would God create man only to damn us? I said that question is outside the realm of most bible thumpers. Your comment was that the entire premise of Belial's question is erroneous but go on to give the very same answer that Belial was driving at. At least for the most part I think. For myself, the idea that the creator of all space, time and knowledge in this infinite universe would care about people "accepting him" or "rejecting him" and exacting punishment to those who don’t believe in the way you suggest strikes me as something that only a vain power hungry king would do. I don't have this conception of God. Sorry.

[amstaff1]

My apologies, in my distillation process I reworded the simpler phrase in reverse. However being a secular person I try to let rational thinking and common sense guide my life. This means that I don't see the "rule" as a command but rather a guideline and one that works well when dealing with the dynamix of human relationships. In most cases I've found that the proactive approach almost always guarantees a positive reciprocation and in cases that it doesn't...That's ok. I'm more concerned with peaceful coexistence and mutual cooperation than necessarily loving everyone. For those that don't go by the "rule", that's fine, they are most definitely in the minority and are one of lifes acceptable losses. I won't waste much time on them.

[jlogajan]

Are you saying that the Bible is wrong?

Yes, the Bible has many wrongful ideas and claims in it.

[jlogajan]

Don't worry about it, logjam. If it is false, you have nothing to worry about.

It's not works of fiction I worry about being false. It is the nutball fanatics who've decided that the fiction speaks to them and commands them to slay or oppress non-believers. You've heard of that happening, right?

[Jorge]

Belial asked why would God create man only to damn us? I said that question is outside the realm of most bible thumpers. Your comment was that the entire premise of Belial's question is erroneous but go on to give the very same answer that Belial was driving at. At least for the most part I think.

I think if you go back and read my responses again you will see that I was challanging what "Belial was driving at."
...that the responsibility for people's choices..lie with the people who make those choices...not with God.

[gore_sux_2000]

Amen, and amen! I have been to Bethlehem Baptist church in Minneapolis where John Piper is pastor and he is so awesome, he is NOT afraid to tell it like it is!

[Don Myers]

"You've heard of that happening, right?"

Why don't you tell us how those mean Christians did that?

[amstaff1]

Regarding the earth firsters. I think I would classify their believes as more of a philosophy and less of a religion.

[woollyone]

Have you ever read "MERE CHRISTIANITY", by C.S. Lewis? I'd respectfully like to recommend it to you. I think you'll enjoy Lewis' logic. You can probably find a paperpack copy for less than $5.
If you end up reading it, please freepmail me and tell me of your impressions.

Best wishes.

baa

[RnMomof7]

Sola here at FR introduced me to his work..I have become a real fan,I am currently reading Discovering God II (Discovering God I, was out of stock when I ordered)

BTW likeing Piper got you on my Christian bump list :>)if you don't want to be on it drop me a FR mail..

[marcde]

Poser, I have a rational legitimate question for you. A society that incorporates into law the acceptance and promotion of behaviors and practices that run completely contrary to logic and simple truth, does such a society deserve the protection of a holy supreme being? This same being who provides this protection is also forced out of all public domain along with his principles. Does this society deserve his protection?

[RnMomof7]

Yes, the Bible has many wrongful ideas and claims in it.

Do share some of your insights