Replies

Here is the real question: If God exists; who created God? Answer that please. If you say God has always existed; you could say that about the universe as well:-)

Time is an aspect of this universe, the same as every point within it having a correlation to other points in regard to length, width, and depth. What happens between those points throughout the course of their existence is how they vary through the dimension of time.

That doesn't apply to God. He's outside the confines of the universe because He made the universe. From His vantage point there is no real time. He knows the totality of existence, not just of all space in this moment but throughout all the moments of all space. He couldn't have been created, because time has no meaning on His existence.

Here is the real question: If God exists; who created God? Answer that please. If you say God has always existed; you could say that about the universe as well:-)

Ah, this is completely a misguided questions, as used by Bertrand Russell. The fact of the matter is, science is quite clear that the universe had a beginning and will have an end. Therefore, the universe has not always been. The attempt to create a solid state model of the universe, that it has always existed, has failed, despite the best ideological motivation of its proponents. So, science does say that the universe exists and behaves in a way consistent with the Big Bang -- that the universe had a beginning. Therefore, you cannot assume that the universe has always existed. You can, however, postulate a primal source or ground for the creation of that universe -- God. Of course, God, as such, is not subject to empirical verification, but neither is empiricism. In other words, you cannot prove empiricism is true, because it is not a testable hypothesis, just as the existence of God is not a testable hypothesis.

So, I can say that God has always existed without contradicting anything in science, but I can not say that the universe has always existed without contradicting almost everything that is known about cosmological physics.

Hey, good question. I dealt with this one a long time ago. Here's my answer:
The primary aspect of existence is causality. Causality can be expressed in any dimension, not just time. So it could be stated as: One thing causes another. One thing leads to another. One thing encompasses another.
The idea is the same: that objects of existence are bound by directional relation (though the nature of that relation may vary).
Now, because, any object that exists must have both a cause an an effect, in some form (otherwise it wouldn't be part of existence), then existence itself must have a cause and effect, because it is an object of itself. I define God as the cause and effect of existence, precisely because God himself has no cause or effect (otherwise, he would simply be an object of existence).

The universe could not have created itself because causality cannot cause itself. So how can God not have a cause? That is the definition of God - there is no higher justification than him. If you're not convinced, please enlighten me.

Here is the real question: If God exists; who created God? Answer that please. If you say God has always existed; you could say that about the universe as well.

Oddly put, but your response is essentially the correct refutation of the argument that since everything must have a cause, there must be a God, else, where did the universe come from? Even if the "big-bang" is granted, it just pushes the question back to, alright then, where did the "bib-bang" come from? But if the answer is God, then God must have a cause, because, if God does have a cause, then the premise of the argument, that everything must have a cause, is denied.

But, this does not mean there is no God, or that there is not good evidence for God.

Dostoevsky asked a very interesting question in Notes from Underground. "What is the ultimate reason for existing?" We exist, without a choice, but to continue to exist does require a choice. But ultimately, even if you choose to continue to exist, that choice will be thwarted.

It's like this. What's the point? There can be no objective in choosing not to live. That's the end of all objective. But if you choose to live, at best, you can only be successful temporarily, and then you die and you will have failed to fulfill your choice.

If God exists, there could be a point. That does not mean God exists. But if God does not exist, there is no point, and how does a pointless existense come to be?

Hank

Here is the real question: If God exists; who created God? Answer that please. If you say God has always existed; you could say that about the universe as well:-)

God is eternal, existing before time, before the universe, before anything. To say, "if God has always existed, then the universe has always existed, too", is to confuse God with His creation. God is separate from His Creation. The Creator is always separate from His Creation. The Creator is NOT His Creation.

Consider a songwriter: he exists before he writes song "A", and although song "A" becomes identified with the writer, and the writer may become identifed with the song, the writer never becomes the song, nor does the song ever become the writer. They are always separate. So it is with God and His Creation.

If you say God has always existed; you could say that about the universe as well:-)

Can you count beyond infinity? You are saying that there was a specific place in time, when the only time we know of is that which we perceive. Just because we can't wrap our human minds around the concept of infinity, doesn't mean that what is always was and always will be. That is my proof of G-d, no matter who or what tries to shake it. No matter how good science seems to think it is, it makes mega-mistakes. If you can disprove that time exists as an entire dimension unto itself, you might have a leg to stand on to prove the nonexistence of G-d. As it stands, I don't see that as a possibility, (any time soon.)