[Scalia Rules]

.45's are B.S.

"One shot stopping power" is B.S. To paraphrase Twain, the safest place to be when one's pointed at you is directly in front of it.

9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so.

[Rightwing Canuck]

Hehe ok, I was just kidding :) When I read that line I remember the time I asked my dad what would happen if someone was shot point-blank with a .45, and he said his ass would be across the street. He hardly ever says something like that so it stuck with me.

I actually know very little about firearms, though I most definately support the right to own them. I'm more of a sword man myself.

[Dogbert41]

Twain was talking about the infamous "pepperbox" pistol, the black powder cap and ball pistol that had multiple barrels sticking out front, because they often exploded. Had nothing to do with the caliber.

The venerable .45 round is a MUCH better defensive round over the 9mm. True, our military went to the 9mm, but sadly it was not due to any military trials against the .45 whatsoever! In fact, the 9mm was around when we first chose the Colt .45 1911. Nothing in a pistol cartridge for a semi-auto at that time tested as well against live or dead flesh as the .45 round.

Why did we go to 9mm? Because we have women in the military now to consider I recon. Perhaps they felt the .45 was too much gun? Why do the FBI HRT carry the Springfield 1911 in .45? Why do our Special Forces carry H&Ks USPs in .45? There are plenty of great firearms out there in 9mm... -Must be their need for killing quickly.

I have nothing against the 9mm, and have owned several. But if I'm going into a fight, it's with a .45, and that's if I can't carry a rifle.

[jonascord]

The doggies went for the 9mm because they can't shoot worth diddly, and 15 rounds increases the chances of hitting Something, rather than 7 rounds and the RECOIL!, Heavens to Murgatroyd!

Note, if you will, that when cops have the chance to choose and are not hamstrung by PC minded town councils, they prefer John Browning's best. Even the fibbies have gone back to the .45 as a carry piece.

I can personally attest that I watched a Spook, (the Agency kind) put a 30-some round magazine from a 9mm Swedish K into a goober, and wound up caving the guy's head in with the pistol grip and a ballbat swing.

The "spray and pray" method is only good in Hollyweird. Remember, they also invented the sideways 'gansta' hold, which is the best way to tell who is going to win a gunfight.

[El Gato]

9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so

Oh goodie, a caliber war, can I join in? The Army is begining to recognise it's error. Special Ops guys are switching to .45s, H&Ks pretty much like the USP. 9mm overpenetrates, even with expanding bullets. As for the higher magazine capacity, that's for those who intend to miss alot. Even the police have turned away from the 9. Mostly they have gone to the .40 S&W, but many allow .45s too. Nothing wrong with .357 BTW, although like the 9, it will tend to overpenetrate. Big and slow is the real way to go, that way even if the bullet fails to expand, say the cavity is stuffed with material from a winter coat, you still make a nice big hole, and deposite most of the energy in the target.

[my trusty sig]

Agreed... for women in general, that is. Virtually any gal can master a 9mm, and as the saying goes, better 1 hit with .22 than 6 misses with a .45

[epow]

9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so.

More proof that brainwashing really does work.

You say the safest place to be is in front of a .45. Come out and watch me and my shooting buddy shoot 2" groups at 25 yds with our 1911s sometime and see if you still think that would be a good idea. Check out the exit hole a .45 Hydro Shok leaves in a bundle of wet phone books and see if you still prefer a 9mm. Some people want to believe that size doesn't matter, but we all know better.

SEALS, who depend on handguns as primary weapons, carry H&K .45s. FBI SWAT teams and HRT went to custom Springfield 1911s after trying almost every other round made and finding them inadequate. Police departments all across the nation have dropped the 9mm in favor of the .40 S&W, and they didn't do it because they had money to burn on new equipment either. They did it because their street cops didn't have confidence in the 9mm. The .40 is a good round, but a lot of cops would still choose a .45 if they had their choice.

The military switched to the 9mm because of standardization with NATO forces, and because a soldier can carry 9mm ammo in less space and with less weight. It's also easier to train a green recruit on a 9mm than a .45. The old WWII era .45s were wearing out in the mid 1980's and needed to be replaced, so the 9mm NATO round seemed to the brass to be the way to go. A lot of old soldiers still disagree.

[soapboxsallie]

It seems that most of the policmen in Dallas are going to the 40 caliber because the 9mm doesn't have the stopping power that they want. It's recoil and report are just about like the 9mm, but the stopping power is better.

[Twodees]

Everybody I've met who tries to claim that the old 1911 is inaccurate has failed to demonstrate that they can hit anything past their foot anyway.

Dependability and accuracy are hallmarks of the 1911 design. 9mm as a choice for the US military was a bow to NATO and the UN, nothing more.

[prambo]

You need a ballistics lesson, in a very big way. The 9 mm Parabellum is a high speed over-penetrating round.

It was selected by the military to line up with NATO arms, and probably as a sop to limp-wristed recruits of all persuasions.

The 9 mm isn't a bad round, but it is no competition for the 45 ACP - no where, no how - NO WAY - EVER.

prambo

[AAABEST]

.45's are B.S. ......

9mm is the way to go. Even the US Army thinks so.

While I appreciate all 2A supporters on this site, the absurdity of this statement isn't even worth debating.

[culpeper]

Compare the energy transfer between the 9mm and a .45acp and then tell me if you had to shoot a hostile with one round which you would prefer. No human is going to get up after a shot to the torso with a .45 especially if you are shooting Black Talons.

[drq]

.45's are B.S.

a doctor friend of mine said when they get gun shot victims in with 9mm....they usually fare well.....
...but anything from a .45 cal in the torso, and the shock wave damage alone to other internal organs will kill you.

one shot - your down for good
and with practice - one shot is all you need