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Suitability of Ruger Mini 14 Rifles and .223 Ammo
Self ^ | 10-2-2001 | Don Myers

Posted on 11/02/2001 7:08:49 PM PST by Don Myers

This is a pure vanity. We have been doing a lot of talking about terrorism and the "war." I have two Ruger Mini 14s. Well, one is a Ranch Rifle and one is a Mini 14. They are virtually the safe rifle with minor differences. I have not even been able to fire them yet. A local police agency turned them in to a local gun store. I think that I should have bought more of them. The Ranch rifle has a scope.

Anyway, I am sure there are many of you who have these guns. I am curious as to what you think about the suitability of the gun and the ammo in a self-defense role in which rifles may be used. There may be a time when a rifle may be necessary to repel multiple hostiles.


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To: Don Myers
"I have a pipsqueek Baretta Tomcat .32 ACP loaded with silvertips that I shove into my pants pocket when I go out shopping or walking."

And I should do nothing to interfere with your way!...an armed society is a polite society.

I've seen many pistoleros who could do things with a .32 or even a .25, that others could not accomplish with a .40 or .45. It all depends on mission requirements, and the individual's willingness to maximize one's proficiency with the weapon.

Personally, I carry a large enough frame that I can conceal my .40 Colt, even in casual clothes. In a sports jacket, I can pack my Desert Eagle in a custom shoulder holster. These are the weapons I train and practice with habitually, because I know they are the ones I'll have with me if needed. I never answer the door without one of the two tucked in the back of my belt.

41 posted on 11/02/2001 7:42:30 PM PST by Joe 6-pack
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To: Don Myers
I have owned numerous .223 and 308 assult rifles over the years and the mini 14's I have had experience with were light handy and very reliable weapons but not accurate enough to commit suicide with. I would opt for the AR 15 varants. Not that much more money but way more accurate and tons of add-ons.
42 posted on 11/02/2001 7:42:40 PM PST by BobinIL
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To: dep
.308 in an hk, i'd be worried

that and a starlight scope controls 1000m in the dark.

43 posted on 11/02/2001 7:44:11 PM PST by glock rocks
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To: PUGACHEV
"I have no idea if they are still available on the civilian market."

Yes, they are. You can buy the civilian version of the AK 47, or the MAK 90 which is the AK but with different woodwork. I have two MAK 90s in 7.62 X 39MM, and I have Chinese SKSs as well. They are nice guns.

44 posted on 11/02/2001 7:44:31 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: dep
"with a mini-14? yeah, right -- you'd shoot the windows out of my neighbor's house, probably, and maybe my other neighbor's pickup truck. the mini is capable of firing about a 50-foot group at that range. "

I'd say you need a little more time at the range...maybe with a coach. A trip to the optometrist's office may not be out of the question either.

45 posted on 11/02/2001 7:45:57 PM PST by Joe 6-pack
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To: Don Myers
Don, I have the Mini 30 Ranch Rifle. Shoots like a dream, 7.62x39mm is cheap, and it packs more punch. Plus it's a Ruger, and built to the same high standards as the Mini 14. If I buy another rifle, I'm getting a Mini 14. I think it makes sense to have both!
46 posted on 11/02/2001 7:45:58 PM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: Don Myers
I think that the .223 round would be especially good for my wife.

try marriage counseling first.

dep

47 posted on 11/02/2001 7:46:07 PM PST by dep
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To: Joe 6-pack
"Personally, I carry a large enough frame that I can conceal my .40 Colt, even in casual clothes."

When it gets cold enough to wear a jacket, I will probably carry my Sig Model 239 in .40 Cal. I like to go lighter when I don't wear a sweater or jacket.

48 posted on 11/02/2001 7:46:54 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: dep; Travis McGee
dep,

I use .223 in my Remington 700 PPS, MR15 HB Target, Colt SP1, Colt Model 614, HK53a1, HK33A2, Colt M16a1, Olympic Arms M4 Carbine, and my Ruger KAC-556F (full auto Ruger). I didnt say I would snipe with the Ruger...(unless I was 50 yrds away), but my Remington consistantly puts shots in a 4"group at 700 yards. My AR15HB....oh 500 yards is an easy shot....I have a confirmed kill on a ground hog at 643 yards...not bad for a breeze in Pierre, SD.

NOTICE: Dear ATF I have Form 4 for all guns. (THEY ARE LEGAL)! Please don't kill me over paperwork or B.S.

49 posted on 11/02/2001 7:47:05 PM PST by DCBryan1
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To: Don Myers
rates of twist changed twice that I know of. You can probably use heavier than 55 gr,at least 62 nato. One I had would do 1.5 to 2" at 100 yards. Arguably, its action may be more reliable in sand than the AR variants. For most home/ranch defense uses, the more accurate AR would not be missed. The round is more than sufficient, though I prefer the .308 The comment that it goes in like a pencil and exits like an orange is not neccesarily true with mil ammo; it does not tumble until nearly the thickness of a man. Softpoints would be another story. Check for feeding with mags. munk
50 posted on 11/02/2001 7:47:30 PM PST by munk
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To: Joe 6-pack
I've seen many pistoleros who could do things with a .32 or even a .25, that others could not accomplish with a .40 or .45.

...and the .22 in your pocket kicks butt on the dozen .45's you left in the safe.

51 posted on 11/02/2001 7:47:45 PM PST by glock rocks
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To: pcl
I have my Mini-14 mounted in a BullPup stock. It makes a very nice, small but very effective assualt rifle.

unless you're left-handed.

dep

52 posted on 11/02/2001 7:47:56 PM PST by dep
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To: Don Myers
You are very fortunate. The mini-14 is a nearly perfect rifle for its intended use which is rapid fire at close to intermediate ranges, (out to 200 yards). Here are some of the "pros" of the mini-14, in no special order:

/1/ With the money you save buying a mini-14 instead of an AR-15 variant, you can buy two minis, or a trunkload of ammo for practice or for WTSHTF. Two people firing two rifles is way way more effective than one guy firing a slightly better AR-15 variant, you can cover each other during movement etc.

/2/ They are "PC". Some states will not let you own an unregistered AR-15 "assault rifle" with its eee-villl pistol grip etc, but think that mini-14s are just dandy. This means you can take your mini to the range and get practice, as opposed to hiding your AR-15 from the BATFags.

/3/ They are very robust and will feed most any ammo, assuming good mags. They will work when soaking wet, they have no thin gas tube to clog and malfunction if you need to cross a river and fire in shoulder deep water. Don't laugh, the best place to shoot is where the bad guys are NOT looking, like out across the swamp behind them.

/4/ All .223s in general are great because you can carry over twice the ammo for the same weight as a .308 battle rifle. A typical load is 13 X 30 round mags, four per ammo pouch on your belt, plus one in the rifle. 13 X 30 = 390 rounds. This compares to 9 X 20 round mags in .308 in the same pouches, plus one in the rifle, for 180 rounds. Since the .308 battle rifle will typically weigh 2-4 pounds more than the .223 rifle, give the .223 rifleman a few more 30 round mags. If you are not being followed by a Humvee or helo resupplying you with ammo, (you won't), then what you can carry may have to last a LONG time. Better 400+ rounds of .223 than 180 rounds of .308 for the same weight which YOU will have to carry. It's not armchair ballistics theory, it's pounds on your belt and back.

/4/ .223, at 3,000+fps and very narrow, goes through kevlar like a knife through butter, nuff said. Shotgun pellets and pistol ammo, (including pistol ammo firing SMGs) will not.

Is an AR-15 rifle better? Without a doubt. Do they both fire the same round? Yes. Are they both effective in a running gun battle at street distances out to 200 yards? You bet. But I'd rather have two riflemen with minis working in concert than one with an AR-15 any day, and the cost is the same either way.

Now putting a scope on a mini is kind of debatable, because the rifle's inherent accuracy is not that good. I'd put a red-dot sight on the ranch rifle, nothing is faster on target! And it works by itself in any light where you can see a target. Plus, you can mount a cheap night vision scope in any detachable mount behind the red dot sight for night use. The NV scope does not even need a reticle, you will see the red dot (it will look green but work the same) just fine, and be able to hit targets at full effective range at night. This is critical, since if your advrsary has a NV capabiltiy and you don't, you are screwed. And if you do and he doesn't, HE is screwed.

One downside of the minis is the magazines, they suck, and are costly and hard to find. Get at least 6 for each rifle. What you don't have in accuracy you must be ready to make up in rapid suppressive fire.

If you shop the net at sportsmansguide.com or ammoeric.com or cheapasdirt.com you will be able to get decent ammo at near $0.10 per round in bulk.

Hope that this helped.

53 posted on 11/02/2001 7:48:23 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: dep
"in the immortal words of the immortal mark twain, multifariously perforated."

That sounds serious.

54 posted on 11/02/2001 7:48:26 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: DCBryan1
" got a 500m shot ? Get a clue, get a Barret "



55 posted on 11/02/2001 7:48:34 PM PST by Pete-R-Bilt
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To: DCBryan1
dep

I see you mentioned .308 in hk

I forgot to mention...my HK51B is for sale....its a short-barreled HK that has a HK21 belt fed tray on it...its a real fire breather...you can have it for $9,500 plus your $200 ATF tax...if you live in a class 3 friendly state.

56 posted on 11/02/2001 7:49:28 PM PST by DCBryan1
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To: Travis McGee
"Hope that this helped."

Yes, it did. Thanks.

57 posted on 11/02/2001 7:51:08 PM PST by Don Myers
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To: Pete-R-Bilt
" got a 500m shot ? Get a clue, get a Barret "

Already have two of them....$6000 you can have my used one.

I like my Catepillar Co. M2 HB .50 better....and oh, for 500m or yd shots...I stick to .223, .300 win mag, .308, or .30-06...I save my .50 cal for 2000 plus m/yd. I dont waste my $2.50 rd per shot ammo on anything under 1200m.

58 posted on 11/02/2001 7:52:25 PM PST by DCBryan1
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To: DCBryan1
They better not have the "evil" bayo or collapsible, huh? LMAO! BATF will have their hands full for years to come with all this "other" activity in our country...they've now got a true enemy to hunt down...and he has olive skin. I think they'd probably be a little relieved that the citizenry is now becoming well armed. Do you like your Oly?
59 posted on 11/02/2001 7:54:10 PM PST by Shaka
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To: Don Myers
You won't get many straight answers to your question. People have their favorites and want to tell you about them. I actually like that. That can be informative and entertaining. Anyway, a Ruger Mini-14 is not a bad choice. I suppose you got a great deal on them, so all the better. The Mini-14 needs work to be a battle weapon, but you said personal defense. In that role, the Mini-14 works well. Some Mini-14s jam a bit, but shoooting the thing will help you learn to clear jams quickly. Some Mini-14s never seem to jam, so practice with it and find out. The 223 makes a great close combat round and does better than most handgun ammo as far as penetration is concerned. The 223 penetrates building materials less than handgun ammo, so it is safer in dense communities of homes, but it does a great deal of damage to humans. It is cheap compared to many other ammo choices, and plentiful. I'd say you have a good weapon and an excellent caliber choice.
60 posted on 11/02/2001 7:55:46 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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