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The Towers Have Fallen - But We Missed the Message
timessquarechurch.org ^ | 9/16/01

Posted on 10/29/2001 7:54:47 AM PST by truthandlife

On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City were destroyed. Five days later, as I was preparing this message, I looked out the window of my study in our 30th-floor apartment. Huge clouds of smoke were still smoldering from the ruins. They rose from the rubble and drifted out over the Hudson River, passing above the Statue of Liberty. The following Sunday, just before I preached this message at Times Square Church, I wept at the sight of the utter devastation. I pleaded with God for mercy: mercy for the grieving families who lost loved ones. Mercy for the workers still digging through the rubble, hoping to locate survivors, but finding only corpses and severed body parts. Mercy for all the police officers, fire fighters and volunteers, who wept openly over the indescribable horrors they saw.

Our church was allowed to set up a relief tent at ground zero of the disaster. Ministry leaders and volunteers from our congregation worked tirelessly around the clock, helping to feed and encourage the weary workers.

Six weeks prior to the disaster, the Holy Spirit forewarned our pastoral staff that a calamity was coming. We had scheduled several major events for the weeks ahead, including our Missions Conference and Youth Convention. But God’s Spirit prompted us to cancel them all. Instead, we felt stirred to call our congregation to prayer.

We decided to hold prayer meetings four nights a week. From the very beginning, each meeting was marked by an awesome stillness that settled over the congregation. We sat quietly in the Lord’s presence, often without a sound, for up to an hour, followed by soft weeping and heartrending repentance. In one meeting, I had to steady my knees with my hands, to keep them from trembling in God’s awesome presence.

During this visitation from the Lord, the Holy Ghost revealed there was a reason for the weeping in our hearts. We were being so moved because a tragedy was coming. A severe calamity was coming to the nation. And even though we didn’t know what it was, our hearts were stirred to intercede concerning it. Then suddenly, the calamity struck. And it hit not only our city, but the nation’s capital. One network anchor declared, “Think of it, our two symbols of power and prosperity have been smitten in one hour.” Little did he know, he was quoting Revelation 18:10: “Alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour is thy judgment come.”

As a policeman from our church helped out at ground zero, his fellow officers kept asking him, “What’s this all about? What’s happening?” Meanwhile, the whole nation has been asking, “Where is God in all this?”

We’re right to ask this question. We need to understand where God is in this calamity. And to do that, we have to trust his holy Word alone. We’ve heard hundreds of opinions from media experts and politicians. But all their rhetoric has begun to sound the same. There’s no real understanding about the meaning of this sudden destruction.

There is one thing I can assure you of: God wasn’t taken by surprise. He knows the thoughts of all human beings, including every ruler, despot and terrorist. The Lord monitors the movements of every person in the entire mass of humankind. He knows when we sit down or stand up. And I can tell you, this one thing is sure: God has everything under control. Nothing on the face of the earth takes place without his knowledge of it, his permission for it, and, at times, his doing behind it.

If You’re a Christian, You Know God Has Delivered a Message to America and the World Through This Disaster.

Ministers and theologians everywhere are saying, “God had nothing to do with these disasters. He wouldn’t allow such awful things to happen.” Yet nothing could be further from the truth. This kind of thinking is causing our nation to rapidly miss the message God wants to speak to us through the tragedy. The fact is, we have to have a word from God. Like many pastors, I’ve wept and grieved over this awful calamity. I’ve sought the Lord in prayer and through his Word. And I want to tell you, I’ve experienced a grief that’s even deeper than the mourning for innocent people dying. It’s a grief that says if we miss God’s message, if we turn a deaf ear to what he’s loudly proclaiming, then much worse is in store for us.

The prophet Isaiah speaks directly to what we’ve just experienced. (If you object to using the Old Testament for examples, consider Paul’s words on the subject: “All these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come” [1 Corinthians 10:11]. Paul makes it clear: the examples of the Old Testament reveal just how God moves in times like ours.)

At the time that Isaiah prophesied, God had been dealing patiently with Israel for about 250 years. The Lord had sent “light afflictions” upon his people, calling them to repentance. He was trying to woo them out of their brazen idolatry and back into his blessing and favor.

All of the prophets throughout the years had spoken to Israel the same essential word: “Humble yourselves.” Scripture says, “They served idols…yet the Lord testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes” (2 Kings 17:12-13).

But God’s chosen nation rejected his call to repentance. “They would not hear, but hardened their necks” (17:14). These people mocked the prophets who called them to humility. And, instead, they “followed vanity, and became vain…and they left all the commandments of the Lord their God…and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord…therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel” (17:15- 18).

God Sent Wake-Up Calls to Israel.

The Lord’s first wake-up call to Israel came in an invasion by Assyria. This arch enemy attacked two Israelite provinces, Zebulun and Naphtali. Fortunately, the attacks were limited to these two points, and the damage was minimal. Yet God was clearly speaking to his people. The Lord’s chosen nation lost their sense of security. Yet they still missed the message God was speaking. Israel then received a second wake-up call. This one was very severe. Two nations whom Scripture calls the “enemies of Israel” — the Syrians and the Philistines — combined forces for a sudden attack. According to Isaiah, this attack came from both “before, and…behind” (Isaiah 9:12). This means the invaders came from the east and the west, surrounding Israel. And their sudden attack was totally devastating.

Now we come to the heart of my message, and to the question most Americans are asking: Where was God in this sudden invasion of his chosen land? What were his people to make of the disaster that had come upon them? Isaiah tells us God was faithful to speak to his people: “The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel” (Isaiah 9:8).. God spoke a clear word. And he sent the message to the whole nation.

Beloved, this verse tells us something very important at our own time of devastation. It says simply, “God always sends his word.” Never in history has the Lord left his people clueless in a time of calamity. He has never abandoned us and forced us to figure out things on our own. He always provides a word of understanding.

Even now the Lord is raising up godly watchmen to speak for him in these times. These shepherds are grieving, weeping and repenting as they seek God’s face. And I believe they’re hearing and understanding the Lord’s message behind the present events. Moreover, they’re not afraid to proclaim dire warnings, because they know they’ve heard from God. They’re compelled to speak of his purposes behind our calamities.

I Have to Speak a Word None of Us Wants to Hear.

Many readers won’t receive the word I’m about to deliver. They’ll think it’s heartless, cruel, unkind in a time of grieving. But, I tell you, if we don’t hear God’s truth and face it, our nation is doomed. Here is the word I hear the Lord speaking to us right now: “The Lord shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together…for the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 9:11, 13). The Bible makes it crystal clear: God used enemy nations to chasten his people. The Lord wielded these enemies as an instrument of warning to Israel, calling the nation to repent. “O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets” (10:5-6).

God charged this coalition of Israel’s enemies to chasten his chosen people. The Lord was trying to warn Israel, “You’ve lifted yourself up with pride. Now I’m about to bring you down. I’m going to allow you to be disciplined by your enemies.”

The enemy coalition launched their massive attack. And, suddenly, the Israelites watched in horror as their buildings began to collapse. Fires raged throughout the cities, burning down stately structures. In a short time, Israel was in flames. And God’s people began to wail, “The bricks are fallen down…the sycamores are cut down” (9:10).

After witnessing the recent disasters in New York and Washington, we can begin to imagine the emotions of the ancient Israelites. Yet, did Israel repent after this horrifying attack? Was there a nationwide acknowledgment that God was sending them a warning? Did the rulers hear God speaking through the awful calamity? No. Israel’s reaction was just the opposite. The people’s initial fear quickly gave way to a flood tide of national pride. “All the people…say in the pride and stoutness of heart” (9:9).

The Hebrew word for stoutness in this verse signifies a sense of greatness. In other words, once the attack died down, the Israelites regained their confidence. They declared, “The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycamores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars” (9:10). They were saying, in other words, “These calamities aren’t from our Lord. They’re simple fate, unfortunate disasters that can’t be explained.

“We’re a great and mighty nation. We’re made up of a proud, unbending people. And we’re going to let the world know we’re coming back. We’ll build everything back bigger and better. Where we used bricks before, we’ll use stone. And where we once built with cheap construction, we’ll use better materials. We’re a God- blessed nation. And we’re going to come through this disaster stronger than ever.”

Doesn’t this all sound very familiar? The Lord himself used an evil enemy to send a warning of chastisement to his people. He wanted to wake them up to their compromise, bring them back to himself, pour out his blessings on them, and surround them with his protection. Yet, throughout their days of grief and horror, God’s people never once acknowledged his hand in it all. No one asked, “What is the Lord saying through all this? Is he trying to speak to us?” No one thought for a moment that such a proud, great nation could be humbled and chastised. On the contrary, the people used the occasion to defy any such thought. They refused to hear God’s warning to them.

I ask you: does Israel’s example hit home with you, after everything we’ve witnessed in recent weeks? Please don’t misunderstand me. I thank God we have a moral President leading our country. I thank the Lord for all the devout Christians who serve in high office. Our church prays diligently for our nation’s leaders. And we’re grateful for the temporary outpouring of prayer nationwide. It’s encouraging to see people sobering up and beginning to rethink their lifestyles.

Yet, even so, we risk missing God’s message to us. Think about it: when our public assemblies call for a moment of silence, we think it’s true repentance. When we see politicians singing “God Bless America,” we think our nation has turned back to God. When we see sporting events observe a silent minute at halftime, we think it’s a spiritual experience.

But is this all that’s going to come out of our recent disaster? Will people in sports stadiums stand in silence for a minute, then go back to painting their bodies in wild colors, chug beer after beer, and scream maniacally for their favorite team?

Like most Americans, I wept as I saw Senators and Congressional leaders standing on the steps of the Capitol, singing, “God bless America…stand beside us, and guide us…” Yet, as I was crying, the Lord reminded me, “Many of the leaders you see singing have worked to rule me out of American society. They are even determined to remove my name from American history books. And they’ve allowed the murder of millions of babies through abortion.”

Suddenly, I was struck by the absolute hypocrisy of it all. We give lip service to God, but we continue our slide into the mire of immorality.

When a Nation Is Under Divine Correction, It Will React in One of Two Ways.

A nation under chastisement may humble itself and repent, as Nineveh did. Or, it may give lip service to God, but then turn inward to its own strength to rise above the correction. There will be a rallying cry, stating, “We have the strength to endure any disaster. And we have the ability and resolve to overcome any problem. We’re truly a great nation.”

I’m as patriotic as any American. And I’m as thrilled as anyone at the unity our nation is experiencing. I thank God for the heroic efforts and incredible sacrifices we’ve seen in the wake of the terrorist attacks. The whole world is in awe of the fortitude and love displayed by the people of New York, Washington, D.C. and America in general.

But we face the same danger Israel did. In our fiery patriotism, we could easily miss God’s message to our nation. And right now, we’re standing at the very same crossroads where Israel stood.

I wonder: if we had lived in Isaiah’s day, would we have listened to his prophetic warnings? Or would we have turned a deaf ear to him? Both Jerusalem and the nation of Judah refused to believe they could be brought low. Yet Isaiah prophesied, “Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?” (Isaiah 10:11). God was saying, in essence, “I’ve judged other nations for the very idolatry you’re practicing. Why wouldn’t I judge you? What makes you exempt from my law?”

All across America, people are holding meetings for “prayer and remembrance.” It’s right and honorable (and totally scriptural) to remember those who have died. But why are we so afraid to also call for meetings of “prayer and repentance”? Right now, most Americans are focused on remembrance and revenge. Yet, where is the call in America to turn back to God?

As for the punishment of terrorists, Isaiah addresses this issue as well. He declares, “When the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria” (Isaiah 10:12). Indeed, when God was finished using Assyria as “the rod of mine anger,” he destroyed them. Likewise, God will bring down any terrorists who attack and murder innocent people. It won’t be long before they meet their eternal destiny in hell.

Here Is the Message I Believe God Is Trumpeting in Our Calamities.

Deep in my spirit, I hear the Lord saying, “I’ve prospered you above all nations. Yet, for years you’ve persisted in worshipping idols of gold and silver. I’ve endured your shameless sensuality, your mockery of holy things, your shedding of innocent blood, your tireless efforts to remove me from your society. Now time is running out for you.

“I’ve sent you prophet after prophet, watchman after watchman. You’ve been warned again and again. Yet still you won’t open your eyes to your wicked ways. Now I’ve stricken you, in hopes of saving you. I want to heal your land, to destroy your enemies, to bring you back into my blessing. But you don’t have eyes to see it.”

If God wouldn’t spare other nations that have outlawed him, why would he spare America? He’ll judge us even as he judged Sodom, Rome, Greece and every other culture that has turned its back on him.

Consider what God spoke through Ezekiel: “Cast away from you all your transgressions…and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye” (Ezekiel 18:31-32). For anyone who doubts that God feels pain, here is proof positive of his great compassion. He too feels grief and sorrow over death. He’s telling us in this passage, “I take no pleasure in seeing you suffer and die. That’s why I’m pleading with you now: turn from your sin and live.”

God weeps especially over those calamities that befall innocents. In these past weeks, you can be sure Jesus has been weeping over the victims of the terrorist attacks. He is said to “bottle the tears of his saints.” Indeed, I believe many of the tears shed by Christians are God’s own tears, prompted by his Spirit in us.

Yet, at times, God’s justice and righteousness cause him to restrain his pity. And he’s forced to carry out his righteous judgments as a last resort. The greatest example of this is the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus. Justice demanded that the sins of the whole world be laid on an innocent man, and that this man would be condemned to die for all. Tell me, who could be more innocent than God’s own Son? Yet Christ willingly gave himself as a sacrifice, to offer deliverance and salvation to all of humankind.

What Will Happen to America If We Miss God’s Message?

What will be our nation’s fate if we reject God’s call to turn wholly to him? What will happen if abortions continue and fetuses are used for research…if we keep erasing our Savior’s name from American history…if we rebuild all things bigger and better, only to enrich ourselves more…if we rely on our armed might rather than on God for power?

Isaiah describes what happens to every nation that rejects God and boasts of its own greatness: “Wickedness burneth as the fire…..they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke. Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry…they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm” (Isaiah 9:18-20).

Devouring fires will rise to the heavens. Darkness will cover the land. The economy will be hit with a staggering blow. And there will be disunity in the nation, in communities, in neighborhoods, in families. People will look out only for themselves, in a desperate fight to survive. And God help you if you come near them.

I was given a prophetic message nine years ago, and I delivered it at Times Square Church on September 7, 1992. Let me share it with you now: “This warning is not meant to scare you. It’s meant only for you to take to the Lord and pray. This is what I believe God has shown me:

“Thirty days of chastisement will fall on New York City such as the world has never seen. God is going to let down the walls. There will be unimaginable violence and looting. The violence will be so ferocious, it will shock the whole world. Our streets will be lined not just with the National Guard but with militia.

“A thousand fires will burn at the same time throughout the city. The Los Angeles fires were confined to a few sections of that city, but New York will be ablaze in all its boroughs. Times Square will be ablaze, and the flames will ascend into heaven and be seen for miles. Fire trucks will not be able to handle it all.

“Trains and buses will be shut down. Billions of dollars will be lost. Broadway shows will stop completely. Businesses will flee the city in an unstoppable hemorrhage. Such things are expected in Third World countries, but not in a civilized nation like the United States. Yet, in not too long a time afterward, New York City will go completely bankrupt. The Queen City will be cast into the dirt, becoming a city of poverty.

“You may ask, when will all this happen? All I can say is, I believe I will be here when it happens. Yet, when it does, God’s people are not to panic or fear.”

Calls and messages have flooded our ministry offices, asking, “Was the terrorist attack on September 11 the calamity you were prophesying back in 1992?” No, not at all. What I saw coming will be much more severe. Indeed, if America rejects God’s call to turn back to him, we’ll face the same judgments Israel faced. And they will hit not only New York but every region in the country. Even the heartland won’t be spared. The nation’s economy will collapse, and violence will erupt. Fires will consume our cities, and tanks will rumble through the streets.

Perhaps you wonder, as I have, “Can any of this be avoided?” Yes, absolutely. I believe we’ll be given a reprieve if our President proves to be a Josiah. You may well remember Josiah as the king who sought the Lord with all his heart. We all should pray that God would give our President the same spirit that Josiah had, to tremble at his Word. The Lord spoke the following to Josiah:

“Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof…because they have forsaken me, and have (worshipped) other gods…But [say] to the king of Judah which sent you to enquire of the Lord…Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the Lord, and thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse…I also have heard thee, saith the Lord. Behold therefore…thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place” (2 Kings 22:15-20).

God told the king, in essence, “As long as you’re in power, trembling at my Word and relying on me, you won’t see the judgments to come. They won’t happen during your reign.”

I believe our window of opportunity to respond to God’s call is brief. We all should pray that our nation repents and turns back to the Lord. But our most intense prayers should be for our own hearts: “Lord, let me tremble not at the disasters, but at your Word. I want to hear your voice in all of this. Cause me to turn wholly to you.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 911; wtc
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To: truthandlife
So now instead of listening to 'why are they mad at us?' it's 'why is god mad at us?' Give me a break.
101 posted on 10/29/2001 9:47:45 AM PST by paul51
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To: Lazamataz
I, too, predict stuff a few weeks after it happens.

Ahhh...but Nostradamus predicated that Edgar Cayce would foretell of the Pyschic Network.

102 posted on 10/29/2001 9:48:18 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen
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To: colorado tanker; truthandlife
May God grant His church a spirit of prayer and repentance, and a new outpouring of His Spirit to incarnate the living and loving Lord Jesus Christ to a world that is in a very wounded but receptive state right now.
103 posted on 10/29/2001 9:48:46 AM PST by sonrise57
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To: truthandlife
" Six weeks prior to the disaster, the Holy Spirit forewarned our pastoral staff that a calamity was coming."

And with that advanced warning you alerted who?

This deluded belief that one is "alerted" by God is almost as bad as brain dead Islamics believing God wants them to die in Jihad. Almost!

Religious zealots of all stripes are indeed dangerous. The Muslims don't have a corner on that market, although they certainly are working towards it.

104 posted on 10/29/2001 9:49:30 AM PST by ImpBill
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To: OWK
The killing of innocents is evil. If God was standing next to the World Trade Center, with a gigantic cosmic catcher's mitt, and yet did not lift an indifferent finger to spare the victims.... Or worse yet, he actually WANTED it to happen in order to "Teach America a Lesson", then he would be one evil creature indeed.

God knows the outcome. God knows where those souls are now. God can bring good from evil. When I punish my child for stealing, I am not being evil, I am loving that child. God doesn't want evil to happen, but he knows that it will because many HUMANS are evil.

105 posted on 10/29/2001 9:51:59 AM PST by dubyagee
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To: rwt60
That is the point I have been trying to make.
106 posted on 10/29/2001 9:53:05 AM PST by sonrise57
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To: alpowolf
It sounds as though you want the govt to use force against those you consider "deviants". A frightening thought, since I suspect that your definition of "deviant" would include most of the population.

This has got to be as big a reach on a small part of a post taken out of context as I have ever seen. Wherever you came up with this is a mystery to me (or more accurately a machination of yours to protect your own ways). Hit home, did I?

It looks like my post defined the several on here that I thought it would. The howling has certainly gotten started now and has greatly intensified, has it not?

It is not MY TRUTH - and it is certainly NOT YOURS!

107 posted on 10/29/2001 9:53:40 AM PST by Will
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To: dubyagee
God knows the outcome. God knows where those souls are now. God can bring good from evil. When I punish my child for stealing, I am not being evil, I am loving that child. God doesn't want evil to happen, but he knows that it will because many HUMANS are evil.

So then NO human murders are really evil, because God knows the outcome, and he's in control at all times.

We should stop blaming people for these acts, cause God's in charge of the whole sha-bang....

(sorry, but that strikes me as absurd)

108 posted on 10/29/2001 9:55:39 AM PST by OWK
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To: rwt60
"Name the American counterpart of Abraham, Jacob, Moses or David." As I recall, for the past eight years that would be Bill Clinton. That's why those ministers he used to invite to the White House said we just couldn't impeach him. It's in a chapter in that humongous Bible he used to carry around that the rest of our Bibles don't have.
109 posted on 10/29/2001 9:55:45 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: sonrise57
"I think when believers shout from the rooftop, that September 11th was God's judgement we are seen by the world as foolish hypocyts (sp). We have to clean up our own act. Then we can turn our attention to the world. "

The "world" has always looked upon believers as foolish. "The gospel is foolishness to them which perish."

110 posted on 10/29/2001 9:59:31 AM PST by Zorobabel
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To: OWK
" You suffer from the same mental sickness that inspired Mohamed Atta and his merry band of zealots to perpetrate the crime to begin with."

As I posted in another reply, but could use repeating;religious zealots come in all different stripes and all are dangerous to some degree.

111 posted on 10/29/2001 9:59:57 AM PST by ImpBill
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To: sonrise57
#103 Amen to that.
112 posted on 10/29/2001 10:00:09 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: headsonpikes
Cause and effect apply more happily to physical phenomena than to historical events. IMHO, cause and effect are not useful metaphors for understanding history; rocks do not have motives--people do.

Oh...and what makes for the motives of people?

What "caused" the "effect" of the 9-11 attacks? We have seen different reasons given:

Hatred of the U.S.
Jealousy of the U.S.
Our support of Israel.
Islamic Jihad.

...to name a few...

Or did God wave a magic want and POOF...it just happened?

113 posted on 10/29/2001 10:04:27 AM PST by Aerial
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To: Zorobabel
Yes, the gospel is foolishness and we can expect be rejected along with our message, but in recent years, I have been concerned that it is not so much the gospel that is being rejected, but rather we Christians, who often act unseemly, and try to find all kinds of justification in the Bible for our unChirstlike and unbiblical behavior and values.
114 posted on 10/29/2001 10:16:25 AM PST by sonrise57
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To: Aerial
"...what makes for the motives of people?"

A very good question...and one that is certainly not addressed by even 1% of so-called analysis of the news.

Osama and his various allies undoubtedly have a host of motives for doing what they did.

There has been little speculation about this specific question, either.

Most writers try to construct some sort of cause/effect chain. A vain fantasy, IMHO.

So, no 'magic wands', no 'cause and effect', just the same age-old MOTIVES that have driven human life for millennia.

But 'motives' are now forbidden in most analysis. Why?

Because it opens the door for THOUGHT, and that would be dangerous.

115 posted on 10/29/2001 10:16:42 AM PST by headsonpikes
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To: truthandlife
David Wilkerson is a true prophet of God for these days. Listen up! God warned a lot of prophets and intercessors about calamities coming to the US. He may not have given them days and times (he really doesn't do that too often) but he warned us to repent of our wicked ways and turn back to Him. You can choose to or choose not to, but if this country does not repent, we're in for it--big time! God will either bless America or take the blessing He's already given us away. It's YOUR choice, America!
116 posted on 10/29/2001 10:21:58 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: truthandlife
Bump for later. I'd read the article before, expected the kind of flames you're getting when it got posted on FR. Good article. Not surprised so many people are offended.
117 posted on 10/29/2001 10:31:29 AM PST by Richard Kimball
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To: sonrise57
Well I agree that there are some real kooks who call themselves "christian." However there are many incidents in the bible of God using wicked nations to chastise His people. Babylonians, the Ninevites, Midianites, Philistines, etc. Whether that is His intention with the towers, I wouldn't know. However the first words Jesus spoke when He started his ministry was, "REPENT, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
118 posted on 10/29/2001 10:34:48 AM PST by Zorobabel
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To: Zorobabel
Yes, and when Jesus spoke that word He was speaking His people Israel, and when He speaks that word today, He is speaking to His people the church. If you do a careful study of the life of Jesus, you will see that He spoke a hard message of judgement on the religious people of His day and a word of hope, healing, and mercy on the "sinners" of His day.
119 posted on 10/29/2001 10:40:40 AM PST by sonrise57
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To: sonrise57
Sonrise, "Problem number 1--These messangers make application to the United States of America prophecies that were given to Israel. For this to be so, the assumption has to be Israel=USA
Probelm number 2--I do agree that the establishment clause was not intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state, however the USA is a secular, pluralistic state with constitutional guarantees of the free exercise of religion. These messangers base their messages on the idea that the USA is christian nation. We are not. The USA does not equal the church. The USA does not equal the people of God. I can agree that the people of God living in the USA, that is believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, are ripe for God's judgement. But God would be unjust to rain his correcting judgement on people who have no relationship with Him.

I agree with your assessment and haven't heard this from anyone before. USA<>Israel, in my opinion. USA<>Christian nation also, in my opinion. David Wilkerson bases his total message on God's dealings with Israel in the OT. We are not Israel, thank you. In another post above, Tony questioned what God thought about the Balkans, Rwanda, China, and all the tragedies and evils happening in Africa and many other places on earth. What about them? Maybe God's too busy judging America.
120 posted on 10/29/2001 10:45:00 AM PST by Gotterdammerung
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