Posted on 10/23/2001 8:39:39 AM PDT by spycatcher
Pre-Islamic Arabia's religion was one of superstition. Belief in jinns (genies), curse casting, magic stones, totems was the norm - and it was against this background that Allah arose. Although the Quran is claimed to be a heavenly writing with no earthly source, evidence of these very sorts of cultural influence is found in such places as Suras 55, 72, 113 and 114.
Animism, the belief that spirits inhabit rocks, trees and other elements was also very commonplace. Some of these stones were venerated and used as a focal point for the worship of a particular tribal god. No surprise, Muhammad's family had just such a stone for their own tribe - a black stone, in fact, that they kept at the Kabah (where the tribal idols were set up). The pagan rites of bowing toward Mecca, making a pilgrimage to the Kabah, running around it seven times, kissing it, then running to the river to throw stones at the devil all found there way into Islamic practice.
The final piece of the puzzle was in found in the religion of the Sabeans, an astral religion that worshipped the moon god and planned their religious rites around the lunar calendar. One such rite was fasting from crescent moon to crescent moon, a practice which would also be adopted by Muhammad.
If these things were not present before Muhammad received them from Allah (who himself is the moon god of Muhammad's tribe), why did Muhammad not have to explain what those words meant in the Quran? How would people have known who Allah was? ( or: what a jinn was? what the Kabah was? what the word Islam meant? etc.). Even the word "Islam" which many believe to mean "submission" was not an original word. In Arabic it was a secular term that denoted the strength and bravery of a desert warrior (a definition that accurately reflects the war-like tribes that founded Islam with bloodshed).
The Moon God
"Allah" is from the compound Arabic word "al-ilah" or in english "the god". Allah was known before Muhammad's time without a doubt. His name has been found in pre-islamic writings and other archeological finds. At the Kabah in Mecca over 350 gods were worshipped, but it was built especially for the chief deity - the moon god. Allah was the personal title of the moon god. Allah was married to the sun goddess. They produced three daughters, whose worship Muhammad would later make the mistake of condoning. The crescent moon symbol of Arabia came from this god.
Muhammad's family revered this particular god, and it is this idol that Muhammad declared to be the only true god. So, Allah - far from being the revealed God of the Bible as Muhammad would have us believe - is nothing more than an amplified pagan idol. Muhammad did not re-make the pagan god, he simply removed the lower deities from the rites of worship. That is why he never had to explain who Allah was. By definition, an idol converted in the 7th century into a new god cannot be the sama God revealed thousands of years earlier to Biblical prophets!
Don't be stupid.
Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah". "Allah" means "God" in Arabic. Muslims are monotheists who are praying to the Creator of the Universe, whom they identify with the God of Abraham.
The easy way to tell if they are praying to the same God -- is simply by asking whether they are praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Both Christians and Jews pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Where the Islamics differ is by praying to a god to whom Abraham did not pray -- i.e., the god of Mohammed (who the Islamics name Allah).
Now, they are mistaken about many of the attributes of God, but that doesn't mean they are praying to a non-entity. Are you saying that God doesn't hear their prayers?
You referred up above to Christians, but here I presume you're speaking of Islamics. If so, then no..., they're not praying to a "non-entity" -- but rather to the "god of this world" -- who is better known as Satan. That's because their "god" of Allah -- has all the characteristics of Satan. He oppresses, kills, lies, deceives and seeks to kill all Jews. These are the things that Satan does. So -- no -- it's not a "non-entity". They should be made aware of the fact that they are praying to the "god of this world" -- aka Satan.
If this is your logic, then, since either Jews or Christians are also seriously mistaken about the attributes of God, do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of whichever of those two groups doesn't understand Him correctly?
God, Himself makes it abundantly clear what the situation is between the Jews and the Christians. We can see that from the following --
Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!"
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people."
Romans 11
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." 9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always."
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?" 35 "Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?" 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Muslims worship the God of Abraham. (or didn't you know that?)
What is the reason that Muslim's false claims to be worshipping the God of Abraham mean by extension that Christians and Jews therefore must not be worshipping the God of Abraham? There's no logic there. Say I was to invent my own religion based on some non-biblical conception of God. Say I was to decide that some tree was in fact god and name him Elmer, and then create a bunch of rituals around tree worship, and then claim that Elmer is the God of Abraham. So if someone says, no you're not worshipping the God of Abraham, you're worshipping a tree, then to be consistent they have to also say Jews and Christians worship trees?
Very good.
I've already got a headache.
I can assure you I won't be continuing much longer.
Wouldn't it seem logical that your followers would eventually worship the God of Abraham after Elmer is long forgotten? How can they believe they worship the God of Abraham (as you told them) but that worship bounce off of God and somehow hit Elmer.
Muslims believe they worship the same God as the Jews. How can they believe that and still be worshipping a moon god? Won't the moon god feel cheated?
Your Syllogism of Religious Syncretism
Major Premise: The enlightened and charitable are those who support the new global agenda of toleration for all, knowing as they do that dogma divides and love unites.
Minor Premise: Orthodox Christians are people who oppose the new global agenda by making a number of dogmatic, divisive claims about their beliefs and morality.
Conclusion: Therefore orthodox Christians, ignorant of the truth that dogma divides and love unites, are unenlightened and uncharitable, the bigoted enemies of human evolution and spiritual advancement
-- Brad Scott in The Deconstuction of Satan
No argument from this quarter.
This kind of response is nothing less than a, ahem, non-sequitur!
The Crescent Moon is the clue and it goes right past you, evidently. It is to Islam what the Cross is to Christianity. It is Islam's primary symbol.
Everything in Islam revolves around the Moon, literally so with its calendar, but the same with its symbology.
The unasked question is why the fasting from Crescent Moon to Crescent Moon? Why the omnipresence of lunar symbols all over the place in that culture?
Agreed. It is absolutely foolish to try to buttress a theological argument with smear techniques. Doing so, absolutely undermines the credibility of the one making the argument. It simply is not even debatable that the Allah of modern Islam is the God of Abraham--and of Noah, Moses, etc.. He is so defined. He is so discussed. Moreover, the great Prophets of Islam, other than Mohammed himself, are Noah, Moses & Jesus.
Accepting the right of Islam to define itself, as does every other religion on the planet, takes away nothing from your right to be critical of its theology. Trying to demonize it by dishonest arguments, on the other hand, virtually destroys the credibility of one's criticism.
It is in part to get away from this sort of specious argument, that I have suggested that we focus on what we have a clear right to focus on, the Internationalism of the terrorists: Their disrespect for borders and National Sovereignty. It is not their theology that kills us. It is their refusal to respect our rights to live according to our own values in our own land. (See Return Of The Gods Web Site.)
Osama bin Laden is not the first International thug to prey on decent people. There were outlaws in Medieval Europe--who did not respect the social order among other people--that had to be hunted down and destroyed. There were later Pirates, who had to be hunted down and destroyed. Then there were the Anarchists and the Communists. The problem is not what any of these people thought. It is that none of them respected our right to reject their thoughts and manage our own affairs. That is the pragmatic focus, we need, to rally the maximum civilized force to destroy them.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
But they don't. There is nothing historically to connect Allah to the God of Abraham. Nor is there anything in Muslim practice to suggest they worship the God of Abraham. The God of Abraham is revealed in the Bible. Muslims don't read the bible. They don't follow the laws of Moses, etc. Simply saying that Allah as described by Mohammed is the same god doesn't make it so.
We all understand the idea of cultural conditioning, in that people tend to adopt the culture in which they are born and raised (particularly if the alternative involves pain, death, or both). Most regular folk need no "enlightening" about this concept. The greater trick, for you apparently, is to state a simple position effectively without generalizing, using hackneyed expressions, and insulting everyone.
Everybody's got a cool screen name but me. :o(
"In sum, I take readers back to the headwaters that, little by little, since about A.D. 1660 have gained such momentum and prominence that we now find ourselves awash in ideas that most take for granted as true."
Sounds like another fundamentalist crackpot who wants to drag the world back to the 17th century.
All religous fundamentalism is rooted in a fear of the modern world, a paranoid fear of annihilation at the hands of the modern, secular world.
Fundamentalist sects exist in all major world religions, and they are all equally dangerous. The Christian Identity Groups (who aided Timothy McVeigh) sally out of their survival communities and commit what they regard as acts of war against the godless government and society of the United States: abortion clinics and personnel are often targets of groups with names like "The Army of God." And its all the same old crap from mentally-challenged losers who spring from family trees that resemble a telephone pole.
Everybody's got a cool screen name but me. :o(
Thanks, but I don't know how much longer I'll have it. The gravitational pull increases with every donut.
Simple solution: Rosie's_Black_Hole.....
There are plenty of things in Islam to be critical of, but I don't think the moon-god is one of them.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.