[the808bass]

All of these theories are false because it would render the promise of Christ to be worthless and there is no credible evidence to support any of them.

You are assuming that when Christ said "upon this rock I will build my church...(etc.)"

1) that rock means Peter (which I have no problem with)
2) that Peter as the rock means Peter is the Pope
3) that church = RCC
4) that Peter was only to be over the RCC and not all Christians
5) that the gates of hell will not prevail against it means no error whatsoever in doctrine for the RCC (which you haven't even established is the church spoken of in the passage)

That's for starters. I know that you believe what you are saying. But you're assuming that your (the RCC) interpretation of the verse is true. It's fine to have beliefs and it's good to hold to them staunchly. However, to pretend that it is the only possible interpretation is fanciful. To simply state something with conviction is not a proof.

[JHavard]

That's for starters. I know that you believe what you are saying. But you're assuming that your (the RCC) interpretation of the verse is true.

I agree, and if I had been one of the early fathers sitting down for the first time to discuss centering our whole doctrinal base on MT 16:18, I think I would have said, alright fellows, we need more then this one scripture, since it can be translated several ways, we need at least one or two more scripture to back this up.

[pegleg]

However, to pretend that it is the only possible interpretation is fanciful.

I don't pretend, I know its true. There is no evidence to prove otherwise.

To simply state something with conviction is not a proof.

That's what we've been telling Protestants for all these many threads. The Catholic/Orthodox posters have the history, tradition and witness of the early church from the time of Christ to the present. The Protestant story is at best 500 years old and is a hodgepodge of conflicting beliefs.

[Pelayo]

*Re-posted for new Thread* About The Matrix

Well the reason I used the word religiose and not religious was to indicate that it didn't have to be about Jesus or any religious person per se. All it had to have was a religion in it. This could include the Matrix I suppose, it did have something of a messianic theme. But, frankly I was thinking along the lines of maybe The Bells of St. Mary's or something like that, but the Matrix? :/

[Irisshlass]

That's for starters. I know that you believe what you are saying. But you're assuming that your (the RCC) interpretation of the verse is true. It's fine to have beliefs and it's good to hold to them staunchly. However, to pretend that it is the only possible interpretation is fanciful. To simply state something with conviction is not a proof.

Christ also told Peter..."whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven." This here by Jesus himself gives authority to Peter to govern HIS church. Therefore the authority of the one who sits in the chair of Peter is a true authority of God's established Church, since Peter was given the keys to Heaven and his established laws of the Church which are bound in Heaven. GOD DOES NOT LIE AND CAN'T.
Further..St Paul says there is one Christ and one baptism. What he is saying there is ONE FAITH.

[Irisshlass]

Are you actually a person? You have been sending the same post repeatedly to all you respond to since last night.

[gideon warrior]

Close but no cigars. The Rock spoken of by Christ is that truth uttered by Peter concerning Christ.."Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God"; The keys to the kingdom are the doctrines to be rendered from the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which Christ taught and the Church is not a building or an institution, it is the Body of Christ...The called out believers who are preserved until that great day of the Lord!