Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Actually, my comments were really directed more towards the Proddies and IFBBers.
Becky
That's all right. It's over. Steven knows just what to say to soothe me. :-)
SD
He is God too, and He does the saving, not man
He did not send out his human disciples to speak His message to the world?
All we do is give out the message, He does the saving, you give man way to much credit.
BigMack
Becky
Watched her show the other night. Anyone know what happened to her? She had a patch over her left eye and the left side of her face appeared to be lifeless.
The God-man had to sacrifice himself. Both natures were necessary. Both.
All we do is give out the message, He does the saving, you give man way to much credit.
You give man too little credit. God wishes us to participate along with Him. We are not passive, we are not robots, we are partners. Junior partners, to be sure, but partners.
SD
Becky
That is to assume that the Hebrew text we have to work with is older than the oldest Greek Text we have to work with. It is also to assume that God had a hand in the writing of the Hebrew text but not that of the Greek, which is to say that revelation was "sealed" when the last Hebrew work was written.
They probably offered her flowers as well. It's veneration. Now did you happen to notice the part of the ceremony where everyone knelt and the priest repeated Jesus' words over the bread and wine? That was sacrifice. That was worship.
SD
PRODDIES AND IFBB'S: how do you interpret this passage?
Let me give you a free translation of this verse. “Now I, Paul, rejoice in the midst of my sufferings for you, and I am filling up in my flesh that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ for His body’s sake, which is the church.” Paul is saying here that it was necessary for him to fill up in suffering that which was lacking in the suffering of Christ. Isn’t that a startling statement? Someone will say, “Doesn’t that contradict what you have been teaching all along? You say Christ suffered for us and paid the penalty and there is nothing we can do for salvation.” That is very true, and this verse does not contradict that at all.
Paul was suffering in his body for the sake of Christ’s body. The implication seems to be that there was something lacking in the sufferings of Christ. A second implication could be that it was necessary for Paul, and I think in turn for all believers, to make up that which is lacking. In other words, when Paul suffers for them, it completes the suffering of Christ.
Paul is writing this epistle from prison, and he says he has fulfilled all his sufferings. You may remember that the Lord Jesus revealed to Ananias the reason He had saved Paul and how He was going to use him. “But the Lord said unto him [Ananias], Go thy way: for he [Paul] is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake” (Acts 9:15–16). Now Paul writes from prison and says that he has fulfilled that.
The sufferings of Paul were not redemptive. There was no merit in his suffering for others or even for himself as concerning redemption. Paul is very careful in his selection of words here. When Paul speaks of the redemption of Christ, he does not speak of suffering but of a cross, a death, and His blood.
BigMack
ksen, didaskalos is my brother. I don't know how often he'll post, but he's quite knowledgeable about scripture and Christian practice. I just set him up with his new computer, and internet access, and he's a novice at things, so I will be helping him if he wants to post more. And no, it's not me under a different name...:o)
I'm going to jump in on this one. Why do you say that God has not given people the power to raise the dead, etc? I don't see anything in scripture that would prohibit or do away with those things. In my opinion, it's a lack of faith on the part of people nowadays, not a lack of willingness on the part of the Holy Spirit. Jesus spent some time talking about and teaching about faith, and how it works, and I believe that was for a reason. I agree that salvation is the greatest miracle, because of what it accomplishes, but even Jesus performed different degrees of miracles. Raising someone from the dead is probably abit more impressive than healing someone of an infirmity. Not to say that those weren't great, too. The main purpose of that is to confirm the Word with signs following. How is that any less needful today? If we preach the Word to the unsaved, and God backs it up with a display of His power, don't you think that people would flock to a God who not only says He'll save you, but can prove it? Otherwise, What are we saying that's any different from Islam, Buddhism, New Age, or any other? Yes, we know the Word is true, but the lost don't. It all sounds the same to them. I think maybe we've been preaching to the choir for too long!
Now, if we were to see the Word preached with signs following, and the preacher is giving the glory to God, and not taking any for himself, is that not what should be done? Is that not in proper order? Jesus performed miracles, and the people wondered at His teaching and His miracles. Even so, Jesus deferred to the Father, saying "I only do what I see my Father doing, and I always do those things that please Him." As in Jesus' day, many just came to Him for the miracles, and did not continue with Him. it will be that way today, too. That's not an indictment of the miracles, or of the power to work them, that's a choice the recipients make. I truly believe that if you approach this whole question with an open mind and heart before God, He will show you, but you must be willing to lay aside your preconceived notions and biases, and believe that He will lead you into the truth, and be willing to accept it, no matter what. Jesus said that we, being sinners, know how to give good gifts to our children, how much more would our heavenly Father give good things to those who ask Him? Wouldn't knowledge fit into that catagory? Can you think of any reason why God would not answer a request from one of His children to have Him show more of Himself and His word and truth to them? I would caution you to not seek those answers from men, but rather from God alone. It will also help you to better hear the voice of God. He speaks directly to all of us, but most of us don't know how to listen, or to hear.
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