The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[ksen]

Yes, I do read them. I enjoy the Scriptures you present every day very much. It seems to me that the application is always geared toward a more Social Gospel than the Gospel of Salvation, i.e. let's make Society better rather than let's see people Born Again and THEN Society will get better. Sometimes I think that we have the cart before the horse.

-ksen

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Because God tells us in his word that if we believe in the saving power of the crucifixation, we trust Jesus ONLY as our way to heaven we will be saved. When you believe this with all your heart, when you understand that you are a low life scum bag no matter how good we are (Psalm 39:5 .... verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah) so we are unable to save ourselves by works, law, sacraments, we will be saved.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, what shall we do that we might work the work of God. Jesus answered and said unto them this is the work of God believe on him who he has sent.

Becky

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

God chooses who will be saved and who won't. I don't think the Scriptures support such an idea.
Read Romans again. Paul clearly defines pre-destination when he describes how, in the womb, God chose Jacob over Esau. "Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated". Paul compounds this when he makes clear that God came to this decision before either one of them had ever sinned much less been born yet.

[malakhi]

We find out today that Blue Cross is trying to screw us on some shots we need for the baby. Since she's a preemie she needs to get a series of shots during flu season for a particular virus which we all have gotten before, but which can lead to death in about 50% of the cases if a preemie gets it. Blue Cross doesn't believe this is necessary and will only pay 70% of the cost. She will need to get one a month for 5 months. The shot costs $1400 each. My wife called the company that makes the shot and asked them if they could waive the rest of the payment and had someone tell her that our co-pay was "cheaper than a funeral."

Unbelievable. I don't know the laws in your state, but in Wisconsin, if you can get your doctor to say that it is medically necessary, then the insurance company has to cover it.

Talk with your benefits administrator, and verify that it should be covered by the policy. Then raise hell over this! If you make a stinkin' nuisance of yourself, it will be easier to just pay the claim than to continue to make an issue of it.

I hate insurance companies. "Like a good neighbor" my @@@. They are in business to collect premiums, not to pay out claims.

[malakhi]

So I guess the point is that if we are accused of using doublethink or "cognitive dissonance" in unabsolutising our absolutes, you haven't found the only instance.

Well, if you are willing to concede this, who am I to argue with you! ;o)

BTW, what do you make of Boniface's opinion of the Orthodox?

[SoothingDave]

The image we have of "St Nick" is a much older, drewid image than the tale of St Nick the Greek.

Did the drewid St. Mick also enjoy Coca-Cola?

SD

[SoothingDave]

Make that St. Nick. St. Mick is the patron saint of Guinness.

SD

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

Ignorance must really be bliss. If only it was a valid excuse, eh?

[nobdysfool]

I believe the text clearly points to the latter. So we cannot commit this sin today since Jesus isn’t present in the flesh.

I disagree, because Jesus lives in us through the Holy Spirit. I think your first take on it is accurate, that attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In the situation detailed in scripture, the scribes saw the work, and we know that they were not happy with Jesus working miracles, so to protect their own positions, they attempted to discredit what jesus was doing. That, to me at least, implies that they (1) knew it was of God, and (2) deliberately chose to say it was the work of the devil. So, Blasphemy of the Holy spirit is a deliberate insult, ascribing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan. It cannot be done accidentally. It cannot be done in ignorance. How can one say the works of the Holy Spirit are the works of the Devil unless one knows what the works of the Devil are? It implies knowledge of spiritual things. Many, if not most, people today are not aware of the Devil, don't even believe he exists, let alone does anything. It was the religious people of Jesus' time that opposed His ministry and sought to trap Him. So it is in this day, the religious people are the ones who protest any deviation from the "way things have always been", or from "tradition".

The Holy Spirit is God, and God is the same "yesterday, today, and forever". If the Holy Spirit worked miracles, cast out devils, healed the sick, etc. in Jesus day, He will still do the same today. Jesus did what He did by the power of the Holy Spirit. He did nothing on His own initiative, but did what he saw His Father do, and the Father did it through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said "the works I do shall YOU do, and greater works than these (healing the sick, cleansing lepers, changing water into wine, walking on water, raising the dead, multiplying loaves and fishes) shall YOU do because I go to the Father".

If these things aren't being done today, it is not because the Holy Spirit no longer empowers people to do them, it is because no one believes that he can do so. Jesus did what He did throught the power of the Holy Spirit, BY FAITH. He spent time teaching His disciples how to operate in faith, and gave them charge to "teach ALL THINGS whereof I have commanded you". He never said that these things were only for "you twelve". If you relegate all the miracles, all the deeds that Jesus did and commanded His disciples to do to that time, and to only those twelve and some of their direct converts, then you gut the Gospels of any real relevance to us today other than the Sermon on the Mount, and a few other things like The Lord's Supper, and the truth of the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus.

[SoothingDave]

Well, if you are willing to concede this, who am I to argue with you! ;o)

But do you see my point? There are absolutes which man is called to follow, but God can make other arrangements if He wishes.

BTW, what do you make of Boniface's opinion of the Orthodox?

I didn't get a chance to look and don't have the link. You have to remember he just went through a nasty divorce.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Ignorance must really be bliss. If only it was a valid excuse, eh?

For some people ignorance would be a step up. The "image" we all have of Santa Claus is largely the product of the Coca Cola company.

SD

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

But do you see my point? There are absolutes which man is called to follow, but God can make other arrangements if He wishes.
I am glad I did not drive through because I absolutely agree with this statement. We are bound but He is not.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I have to go ride that idiot horse now, which made me think of something funny. Yesterday while I was riding him I stuck him so hard with my spurs he cut the cheese. HeHe:)

Becky

[ksen]

See my #6869

Whew! I thought that was the case.

BTW, have you noticed that we are now off by 2 when you compare the post number that the Thread says we are on with the actual post number? Wierd.

-ksen

[IMRight]

But if you believe that bacon should be chewy, like me, I remain skeptical.

You're chewy???
See what a little punctuation interpretation can do?

[OLD REGGIE]

Do you disagree that Paul relegates women to second class status?

He does not relgate women to 2nd class status.

1 Timothy 2:

1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time.
7 For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
9 also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire
10 but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.
12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
15 Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Maybe you don't think this is second class, but I do.
------------------------------------------------------------

Do you disagree that Paul says Bishops must be married, etc.?

He says no such thing

1 Timothy 3:

1 The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task. 2 Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,
3 no drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money.
4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way;

Modern language nuance???

[nobdysfool]

Any suggestions on where I can find a good Amish chat room?

You might try the Electric Amish Band's website...but don't tell the Parson....

[SoothingDave]

But if you believe that bacon should be chewy, like me, I remain skeptical.

You're chewy??? See what a little punctuation interpretation can do?

I admit that that sentence was a mish mash from the start. The tenses and persons don't agree. First I talk about "you" then end up talking about "me." It's an all time bad sentence.

SD

[al_c]

Yes I read them, and was telling Mack just yesterday, that they are always very good, it's just that I know the rest of the story:) and that makes me very sad because close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes. (if you get my point, and I am not trying to be hateful when I say that)

Why do you asume the worst just because of the Catholic connection? What if I never told you my denomination and only posted the scripture and mediation without linking to EWTN's scripture? Perhaps you should go back an read today's again (and I'm not trying to be hateful when I say that).

[Invincibly Ignorant]

10 but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. 12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. Maybe you don't think this is second class, but I do.

Second class the way Pat Ireland would define it, yes. This is their role in God's kingdom. If they love God they wouldn't think of it being 2nd class at all.