Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
That's what I claim. They are all being blown about by every wind of doctrine.
In what way are they lacking or unconvincing?
In what are they not? They can't even agree on the basics of doctrine. They have zero signs which should follow those that believe, like tongues. Ever spoke in tongues? I have.
There is coming a time when great signs and wonders will be done, but they won't be from God.
I believe that has already happened. And I don't mean great signs. A little healing as many claim but lie. How about charity? I see that lacking just among us here. We may be brothers but we act sometimes like Cain and Abel. At least we are discussing eternity anyway. That's why I'm here, I have a great deal of respect for ANYONE attempting to learn the word of God.
Tongues, Knowledge, and Prophecies were all Revelatory gifts. They were needed at the time because the NT was not yet complete. The churches did not have the complete testimony from God. Now we do, so those Revelatory gifts have passed away.
This you are terribly mistaken and assuming in. The instant indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit is available to anyone right now this moment. Yet many of you don't understand this small thing.
That's what I claim. They are all being blown about by every wind of doctrine.
In what way are they lacking or unconvincing?
In what are they not? They can't even agree on the basics of doctrine. They have zero signs which should follow those that believe, like tongues. Ever spoke in tongues? I have.
There is coming a time when great signs and wonders will be done, but they won't be from God.
I believe that has already happened. And I don't mean great signs. A little healing as many claim but lie. How about charity? I see that lacking just among us here. We may be brothers but we act sometimes like Cain and Abel. At least we are discussing eternity anyway. That's why I'm here, I have a great deal of respect for ANYONE attempting to learn the word of God.
Tongues, Knowledge, and Prophecies were all Revelatory gifts. They were needed at the time because the NT was not yet complete. The churches did not have the complete testimony from God. Now we do, so those Revelatory gifts have passed away.
This you are terribly mistaken and assuming in. The instant indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit is available to anyone right now this moment. Yet many of you don't understand this small thing.
That's what I claim. They are all being blown about by every wind of doctrine.
In what way are they lacking or unconvincing?
In what are they not? They can't even agree on the basics of doctrine. They have zero signs which should follow those that believe, like tongues. Ever spoke in tongues? I have.
There is coming a time when great signs and wonders will be done, but they won't be from God.
I believe that has already happened. And I don't mean great signs. A little healing as many claim but lie. How about charity? I see that lacking just among us here. We may be brothers but we act sometimes like Cain and Abel. At least we are discussing eternity anyway. That's why I'm here, I have a great deal of respect for ANYONE attempting to learn the word of God.
Tongues, Knowledge, and Prophecies were all Revelatory gifts. They were needed at the time because the NT was not yet complete. The churches did not have the complete testimony from God. Now we do, so those Revelatory gifts have passed away.
This you are terribly mistaken and assuming in. The instant indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit is available to anyone right now this moment. Yet many of you don't understand this small thing.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot, see the kingdom of God
Where he says "truly truly" (verily verily) and then as to say this at least 3 or 4 times and explain it to Nicodemus. Why not take this one literally too?
We do. One must be baptised to see the kingdom of God.
SD
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and, the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The BREAD is his flesh, which he is going to give for the life of the world. It seems that he's talking about his crucification here. He is the bread, come down from heaven, to be sacrificed on on the cross. would that mean that communion is a symbolic way of remembering his sacrifice on the cross?
LOL...I'll agree with you there, but that's not the point.
So you believe one can loose their salvation? If so were do you draw the line?
BigMack
Where do you find Scriptural support for what passes for tongues today?
-ksen
I don't think Havoc is saying that you can lose your Salvation, but you can lose out on Eternal Life.
What's the difference? I don't know. Hopefully Havoc will come on and tell us what the difference is between Salvation and Eternal Life. If Salvation isn't salvation from going to Hell than what is it Salvation from?
-ksen
Much more than symbolic. But yes, you are correct. When we celebrate the Mass we re-present to the Father the perfect sacrifice of His Son. We participate in the sacrifice and participate in the sacrificial meal. Look at the passover account. The lamb must be eaten. If that is a prefigurement of Christ on the Cross (which it is) then we must also partcipate in eating the Lamb. How do we do this?
God provides. When we bring to mind the work of Christ, offer it to the Father along with our meager lives, God touches our altars and transforms the bread and wine into truly the Body and Blood of Christ. It is at once a meal and a sacrifice. It is the unbloody representation of the Crucifixion, the only acceptable sacrifice. It all ties together in majesty.
It is so much more than a "memorial" serice, something we do to remind ourselves of Christ's action. It is tapping into this very power, this very moment which healed the rift between man and God, and gaining nourishment from it, as God once agains pours Himself out for us.
SD
What's the difference? I don't know. Hopefully Havoc will come on and tell us what the difference is between Salvation and Eternal Life. If Salvation isn't salvation from going to Hell than what is it Salvation from?
Most of the time I agree with Havoc, but on this.....
I don't need Havoc to tell me what the difference is, I know, there is none.
BigMack
You've still missed the point. The sheep are not merely the saved. The sheep are those that hear and obey/follow. Look at romans 8 again. No condemnation for those who are saved and walking in the Spirit of God rather than after the flesh. The Sheep are those who are saved and hearing/obeying (ie following God in the Spirit). The sheep are not the ones who are saved and do their own thing. Thus, 'not every man that cryeth Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven.' The Kingdom is for those who overcome. And, once again, overcomers are not those who give in to that which they are trying to overcome.
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