Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
The illusory world of the Matrix is the world of the fallen passions, which ultimately are unreal, though real enough to kill you (spiritually).
Thanks, Steven. I only wish that more of our "debates" could begin (and end) with that kind of statement. I too often get the impression that some here consider RCs to be some kind of pagan cult.
Many Catholics (pre-Vatican II of course), felt similarly towards the Protestants, so I guess it should be no suprise when they return the favor acouple centuries later.
I don't think that most RCs think of you as ignorant, just "seperated brothers". I prefer to think of the whole mess as being more of a particularly messy divorce... where both sides make up ridiculous charges to make sure that the children hate the other parent (and to justify their own sinfullness causing the divorce).
Is it any mistake that you can re-organize the letters in Matrix to spell "Marxist," if someone gives you an "s"? I don't think so.
But let us turn to more serious issues. Let's discuss the existenialism found in the Seinfeld finale. It is quite obvious that the entire crew perished aboard the aircraft bound for France. The remainder of the episode should be seen as the Final Judgment upon the characters; and it become known to us only then that the effects of a lifetime of nihilism leads to a deluge of aggreived parties. The ending even fits Sartre -- to have as a punishment, as Hell, being locked forever with your "friends."
SD
Christ established one Church not a bunch of them. So if you have been baptized and are a Protestant, you are a part of the body but in imperfect communion with his church.
And if you were one of the early fathers... what would you say about being "born again"? Another single verse with two solid translations (even in the KJV) upon which whole doctrines have been centered.
Well, we are developing a new threads doctrine here, we only have to repeat ourselves 2 or 3, (not determined yet)times and then we can simply say I handled this question already, let's move along now, because I will not go there again.
These threads should really get interesting when all we are allowed to respond to questions with, are new, never used before answers.
I can see where this will be to the advantage of the non's, since we aren't limited to Headquarters answers, but anything the Bible has to say on the subject. :-)
As long as we do it with panache, like Commons Question Time for the Prime Minister:
"I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago."
SD
OK. It’s the Church Christ established. That would be the Catholic Church.
Once I am saved I become a member of the body of Christ.
OK. But you won’t know if you’re saved or not until the judgement.
The church and the body are NOT separate. They are one and the same.
OK. So what’s keeping you from joining his Church?
I don't usually agree with you, Allen.
However my NIV cautions me on the verse:
1 John 5:8 the [Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the
Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are
one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not
found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)]
Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in
agreement.
Tehillim (Psalm) 19:14 May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
XeniaSt
touche'
Poor us. As a member of the body of Christ, which IS His Church, I am most concerned about being in perfect communion with the Head, Jesus Christ!!! Believers who are a part of the Roman Catholic church are members of Christ's body as well; even Pope John Paul--and it would be nice to have perfect communion with them, too; as foot to foot, or hand to hand, or eye to eye, or toe to toe, but.... For some enlightenment on the subject, read Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12. Yours truly, Hopefulpilgrim
Yeah ... thanks to Jerry Jones and Washington's Jerry Jones wannabe.
Speaking of keeping up with Jones, when is the Skins' owner going to drop 50 pounds and have major facial surgery?
Please show me, from the time of Christ or even from the apostolic age (not your apostolic age, but the apostolic age commonly defined by Christians) statements for transubstantiation, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the primacy of the papacy (or even the existence of the papacy). That should be a good start. The simple fact of the matter is that (as JH is pointing out) you have a gap of several hundreds of years where you say you were flourishing and your doctrine was already established but you have no evidence. That's a problem. And your stating otherwise will not make it so.
I believe what I believe. However, I do offer others the courtesy that I do not know everything. You do not seem to hold Protestants in too high a regard, but I'm not sure how your attitude is all that different from the caricature that you paint of them.
OK. But you won’t know if you’re saved or not until the judgement.
OK. So what’s keeping you from joining his Church?
How goes that saying???...something like, "There is none so blind as he who WILL not see?" Pegleg, get your nose out of the RC handbook and into THE BOOK of books, or you will miss the Truth and be left out in the end. I beg of you.
The idea of regeneration by the Spirit is not present in just a few verses with questionable interpretations. You may not like the phrase "born again" or the attendant baggage, but one cannot escape the Biblical idea of the Spirit that gives life and regenerates the degenerate who place their trust in Christ.
Messy divorce? Actually I think that's a pretty good description. I've come around so much, as a former catholic, that I've actually ruled out the possibility of the catholic church being the great whore in the Book of Revelation. I beginning to think, as much as a person can figure "Revelation", that it more accurately depicts Muslim and Islam. After all, its a gigantic movement that came about to discredit Judaism and Christianity.
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