Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
I can always be wrong, but when I believe harm can be avoided I believe I have an obligation to look for a skillful avoidance.
that was my intent, you may well think I failed.
thanks for your reply…
Too much Mary and various other dead people, too little Jesus. Too many statues, too little emotion. Too many words, too little said. Too many costumes, too little reality.
I think you were right. He was the last one to go into attack mode. :) This one has been brewing. And Havoc is not known for tact or subtlety. And for that you gotta love him or love to hate him. He's kind of the Bill Laimbeer (or to use a good analogy closer to you) or Bill Romanowski of the Proddies. If he's on your team, you gotta love being next to him. If he's on the opposing team, the mere mention of his name brings a frothing foam to the mouth :)
And D-fndr, it wasn't too bad. A little off, but not too bad.
The only harm I observe from Havoc's posts is exposing some of the fraudulent catholic views. I'm sure as a catholic you find that harmful. I must encourage you to relax. Truth sets people free.
that was my intent, you may well think I failed.
I have no doubt your intentions are sincere. Yes, I think you failed in that post but you'll live to serve another day.
This is rather pathetic Dfendr. I am one that enjoys most of Havoc's posts because we think alot alike. I just don't happen to possess his writing skills so when he jots something down most of the time (not all the time) in my spirit I find myself giving him a hearty amen. I guess in your eyes that makes him my guru. But God forbid should he ever fall, and it ticks me off I have make this point because of your pathetic comment, don't worry about me, the Lord's been faithful in keeping me for 30 years now. Maybe you should get the log out of your own eye.
Listen Colonel Sanders. From a Viet grunt, 196th infantry, 1971 Da Nang. I'll go to battle anytime, anywhere with this person you're raggin' on. Don't sound like you've been in many foxholes Colonel. I'm confident if you had your spiritual worldview would be drastically different. I'd guess you're one of those officer types tippin' a few brews back in the rear hopin' us privates, pfc's and corporals fare thee well out in the bush. So why don't you stay back in the rear and make sure all the support personnel have their boots bloused and their brass polished and remember to give you lots of salutes. We're soldiers in the army of our Lord. This army will be around alot longer than yours. As you were.
"Christ we worship as the Son of God; but the martyrs we love as disciples and imitators of the Lord... With them may we also become companions and fallow disciples" The Martyrdom of St. Polycarp 155 A.D.
As for Mary and our veneration of her, You still need to tell us what acts you find offensive. Is it the praying? The statues? The processions? Or all of the above?
too little Jesus.
Our whole act of worship is centered on the Eucharist. Every thing the Catholic believes s\he believes because of the Eucharist(Christ). It is all based upon Christ.
Too many statues, too little emotion.
Too much art, not enough emotion?
Too many words, too little said.
Really? In what why?
Too many costumes, too little reality.
You don't like ceremony?
The problem is in what Catholics refer to as "early." "Early" is a relative term! A lot can change in just a couple of generations. It's human nature to embellish the truth....OR to water it down. To hear my mother relate how my family migrated from Alabama to Texas isn't quite the same as hearing my great aunt tell it. Honestly, if I could see authentic documentation from the generation following the original apostles which addresses some of these [what I consider to be] questionable teachings about transubstantiation, Mary, baptismal regeneration or infant baptism, the infallibility of a teaching magisterium, and so on, I would re-study the accepted protestant teachings. But I don't think such documentation espousing these ideas ever existed. I think Scripture speaks clearly about most of these things, or in some cases, the silence of Scripture speaks clearly.
I try to keep up with the news on the political front and urge caution in all action. I also ask those I talk to to think about what our President said about it being a war between good and evil and use that as a launching pad for true and good and just reform of ourselves as individuals and our society in general. I believe that when de Toqueville marvelled about America and concluded that "America is great because she is good, and when she ceases to be good she will cease to be great" is something that should be made known to everyone for their consideration and action. My own observations lead me to worry that America is falling from grace.
Pegleg wrote: Excellent. Then join his church.
I don't understand your response---how can I join His Church when I am already a member of His body, which IS the Church (Romans 12, 1 Cor. 12)? Are you just being facetious?
The only one you really need is the Eucharist part, every thing else will make sense once you get that. So how about St. Ignatius of Antioch, disciple of the Apostle John? We have gone over what he said "...They have abstained from the Eucharist and prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of Our Saviour Jesus Christ."
And of course there is the Bible it self! 1Corinthians 10:16-17 "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? v17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread." Not to mention all that stuff Jesus himself said.
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