Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
That is so like the Catholic Church. We've pared down on "God's stuff" some over the past years and I think we lost a bit of our completeness in doing that. My parish church is rather stark compared to the old beautiful churches that used to be built. I take my kids on occasion to older churches to light candles and so they can see the less modern side of our faith. I also take them to Tridentine/Latin Mass once and a while (hard to find and far away) so they will have the experiences you detail above - a much fuller way to worship IMHO. Not to say I like one better than the other - God is present at either (just trying to avert the trad/novo debate).
My son is making his First Holy Communion this May and lately we have been working on the Nicene Creed as well [with the filoque ;-)].
We don't read along with Scripture readings in Church at all. I wouldn't want to, as I believe they are too important. Before any reading of Scripture, the Deacon proclaims in a loud voice, "Wisdom! Let us attend!" We take this command very seriously, and focus all of our attention on listening to the words as they are read (chanted, actually.) We try to receive as much as possible the message, to allow God's presence in the Liturgy and in our own hearts to open our ears. For most of us at Liturgy, I think reading along would be an extra distraction, although it is certainly smart for the hearing impaired.
Yep, I am gathering sources on that. But I try to find time to provide some "clarification" on posts that require as such, if I can do so.
Interesting perspective. All the ritualistic hocus pocus stuff actually drove me away when I was younger.
I don't know about Becky but I really like to talk and get some things off my chest.
...what keeps it's hold of me so to speak is
1. A way to convince a catholic to take a different look at their faith.
2. Or find a way for me to view their faith differently, so that I can feel more comfortable about my family.
1)What, would be the different look at your family's faith that could/would satisfy your requirement here? Any general thoughts? Big differences, little differences? Acceptence? Forgiveness? Compassion? Do they reject you in some way?
Acceptence: my folks kept trying to give me up for adoption sence birth, but they gave up when I turned 12, no one would take me. Forgivevness: The time I launched a rocket in my bedroom and it went thru the roof and burnt the house down, they never did forgive me for that. Compassion: The time I fell off the stage at a jr high school play and broke my arm, and they didnt't take me to the doctor and it healed up kinda crooked, well that really hurt my feelings. Rejection: Right after I turned 12 and they gave up trying to give me up for adoption, that day after I came home from school, they had moved but didn't tell me. Man they were hard to find too, took me almost a month, but I found them, they were really disappointed.
2) What could change in your view of their faith that would make you more comfortable about/with them? Respect? Understanding? Forgiveness?
Their faith: well it would really help if they would quit wearing those white robes and stop building and burning crosses. Respect: well if they would start comming to see me or just call once a year or so, that would be nice. Its been 30 years since I heard from them, it was the day I graduated high school, when I left for school that day, they were leaving for a trip in the Bahamas, I remember hearing them talk about some kind of celebratition. Forgiveness: well....I think they have forgiven me for being born, but I think their still a little disappointed that I have lived so long. (Mom - Dad, if you Freep and are reading this, I still love you guys)
Anyway D-fendr thanks for letting me share this with you. (I'm kinda lonely, could you Freep mail me every once and a while:)
BigMack
Becky
Agreed! And, I'll add, a German-American from the suburbs can marry a ghetto-raised African-American girl, move to the woods, have beautiful children, teach them to think of themselves as unhyphenated Americans, and live happily ever after! I know from intimate personal experience! LOL!! ;-)
LOL. Uh oh. You're gonna make D-fendr blow the dust off of a couple more of those philosophical type books on the shelf right next to Robby's history books.
Becky
Tell ya what. Let Mack go first. :-)
It's sad that "ritualistic hocus pocus stuff" drove you away. I stay because I don't see it in the same light that you do. I see it as a reverential, all sensory, beautiful way to worship God.
It seems that some people develop a taste for things in their youth, while others develop a distaste for things. Maybe you and I are more the latter. The only church I ever had been in as a child (for services) was a Presbyterian church. I think it really turned me off on the notion that endless talking can be the height of prayer. And I thought the little plastic shot glasses of grape juice at the yearly "communion" were silly. Maybe this helped me be more receptive to the different ways that worship seem to manifest in Orthodoxy, and helped me respect the seriousness with which the Orthodox conduct themselves in worship. Seems like you had a similar experience, only in the opposite direction.
Maybe Matthew 22:37:
" Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.What do you think? Is it possible God might grant your family eternal life based on these verses?
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Too bad they didn't teach me to see it in the same light.
I could try, but I'd rather give you up for adoption to someone else.
My experience was just seeing people go thru motions.
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