Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Missalets. Little Missals. A full Missal is a book which contains all the Sunday and/or Daily readings and the Order of the Mass. Missalets come like a magazine subscription, we now get them 4 times a year. Saves on wear and tear on permanent books and can reflect any changes made to Bible texts without the expense of replacing full Missals.
Do you beleive Priests are led by the HS when they give their messages? If so how do they do that if the message is pre determined years ahead of time.
Some are, some aren't. I don't think that it is guaranteed that the priest's sermon will be inspired.
Regardless, a good homiliest can always find a way to bring up the message he feels that needs to be said. That is, if the HS is insisting that a certain thing be said, the priest will say it.
For example, right after Sept 11, you can bet that every priest in the country found a way to address the situation. I don't even recall what the readings of the day were about, but some thread can always be found to chase after to get a message out.
SD
Sorry for butting in, but I don't think that's offensive at all. I have seen only a very few Catholic's carry a bible into the church on Sunday. But then again, all the readings are readily available in the pew at every church I've been to.
But we could if we chose to do so. Those missalettes have the Bible verses for the day, so bringing a big huge Bible would sort of be redundant (not to mention heavy).
Several times our old pastor got up one Sunday and said we would look at such and such next Sunday, the the next Sunday would come and he would say, I had the lesson all ready but the HS has guided me to such and such. And you know that message would always be something that we all really needed at that time.
Well, the Catholics like to be in accord with each other, that is why we do the same readings at all Masses - you can go to any Catholic Church and "carry on". At Mass the Priest will elaborate on the Litergical reading(s) of the week and then read (on his own, during the homily) another portion of the Bible that corresponds to something that may be going on that needs to be addressed - that happened certainly in the wake of 9/11 and also recently with some of the sad events unfolding with our clergy. It is very inspirational when the Priest does that and you are right, it is something that feeds that empty feeling in you when you need words of wisdom from Jesus. That is the Holy Spirit at work.
LOL! I was thinking of a similiar analogy, that those who agree with fortheDeclaration would forgive the RC's for the Spanish Armada and the Inquisition about the same time that the Greeks forgive the RC's for the sack of Constantinople. As I think I said to you last week, I don't agree with the Greeks on this at all and we all could bear grudges to the end of our days and teach our children to carry them from there. But are they really useful?
Not quite half the time. More frequently we attend the local bible church (very similar to Independant Baptist). Plenty of Catholics carry a bible to church, but it really isn't necessary since the readings are usually more complete (not just a single verse) and don't hop around as much. I've always thought that the Baptist notion of everybody having to turn to a verse before the pastor reads it was a little silly (especially for one verse). The KJV is prefered by better than half the congregation, but some have the NIV, some the NKJV, etc etc etc and I've always thought that it would be better for him to just read it (I'll take his word that he isn't pulling a Ben Franklin on me). I think it goes back to the idea of authority. If indivdual members don't see the verse for themselves they may not believe it.
In the pews were paperback pamphlets that I looked through, they had all the readings and mass responses for that month.
I've always thought that made things a little easier. It probably goes back to when the mass was in Latin. Do you beleive Priests are led by the HS when they give their messages?
About as often as my NC pastor. Which is to say, usually, but not always. If so how do they do that if the message is pre determined years ahead of time
The message isn't exactly predetermined, but the verses are (and they usually share a theme). The priest has great latitude on the message itself.
Several times our old pastor got up one Sunday and said we would look at such and such next Sunday, the the next Sunday would come and he would say, I had the lesson all ready but the HS has guided me to such and such. And you know that message would always be something that we all really needed at that time.
I've seen the same thing happen at both churches. A priest can certainly say "today's verses are on forgiveness, but I think we need to have a good long talk about the role of our church in local ministries to the poor".
Now you may scoff at this
Not at all. Our pastor does the same thing. We're probably about a year into a series called "from creation to glory" taking the bible from start to finish (with lots of typology references). But there have probably been 10-15 weeks where the pastor just felt a need to talk on something else. So? I only get upset when it's a particular holiday and no mention is made of, say, Mother's day.
Indeed the magic of America is that we leave such things behind and an Irishman can marry an English girl. And a Greek a Turk, a French a German, etc. It's beautiful.
For the record, I don't really harbor any ill will towards the British, I just reserve my right to answer historical insult with historical insult. My point is usually that such contests are to no avail.
SD
Aw man. You gotta say a special blessing prayer for the mothers on their day.
(I'll take his word that he isn't pulling a Ben Franklin on me).
Is this some type of Quaker slur? I've never heard the phrase before. Why would Ben Franklin be associated with lying?
SD
And its also interesting that Orthodoxy provides some wonderful, visceral ways of drawing the children in to the life of faith. Lighting candles, smelling incense, hearing and singing chants, tasting communion, feeling the touch of a priest's hand when he blesses you, kissing a cross or Bible. We believe that God reaches out to us through all of our capacities, not just our intellect. I believe that this is one of the deficiencies in relying strictly on Scripture. It seems that it might make it easier for a child to learn that faith and God's Word is only or first or best something of the mind rather than something of the whole person.
Luckily for him, Ben owned his own printing press and would reprint needed pages whenever required.
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light of light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.
And ascended in to heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father.
And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets.
And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the Resurrection of the dead. And the Life of the world to come. Amen.
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light of light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.
And ascended in to heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father.
And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets.
And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the Resurrection of the dead. And the Life of the world to come. Amen.
Interesting to note some of the language differences.
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