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The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams


Thread 162
TNS Archives


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: christianlist; michaeldobbs
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Last summer I had to go to a funeral of a Lady who babysat Charlie when I went back to work after he was born. She was catholic and a member of the church I attended at a child. In the pews were paperback pamphlets that I looked through, they had all the readings and mass responses for that month.

Missalets. Little Missals. A full Missal is a book which contains all the Sunday and/or Daily readings and the Order of the Mass. Missalets come like a magazine subscription, we now get them 4 times a year. Saves on wear and tear on permanent books and can reflect any changes made to Bible texts without the expense of replacing full Missals.

Do you beleive Priests are led by the HS when they give their messages? If so how do they do that if the message is pre determined years ahead of time.

Some are, some aren't. I don't think that it is guaranteed that the priest's sermon will be inspired.

Regardless, a good homiliest can always find a way to bring up the message he feels that needs to be said. That is, if the HS is insisting that a certain thing be said, the priest will say it.

For example, right after Sept 11, you can bet that every priest in the country found a way to address the situation. I don't even recall what the readings of the day were about, but some thread can always be found to chase after to get a message out.

SD

24,481 posted on 02/06/2002 7:56:43 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
And not to be offensive, but I have never (not an exaggeration) seen a catholic carry a bible into church on Sunday.

Sorry for butting in, but I don't think that's offensive at all. I have seen only a very few Catholic's carry a bible into the church on Sunday. But then again, all the readings are readily available in the pew at every church I've been to.

24,482 posted on 02/06/2002 8:01:21 AM PST by Rambler
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
but I have never (not an exaggeration) seen a catholic carry a bible into church on Sunday.

But we could if we chose to do so. Those missalettes have the Bible verses for the day, so bringing a big huge Bible would sort of be redundant (not to mention heavy).

Several times our old pastor got up one Sunday and said we would look at such and such next Sunday, the the next Sunday would come and he would say, I had the lesson all ready but the HS has guided me to such and such. And you know that message would always be something that we all really needed at that time.

Well, the Catholics like to be in accord with each other, that is why we do the same readings at all Masses - you can go to any Catholic Church and "carry on". At Mass the Priest will elaborate on the Litergical reading(s) of the week and then read (on his own, during the homily) another portion of the Bible that corresponds to something that may be going on that needs to be addressed - that happened certainly in the wake of 9/11 and also recently with some of the sad events unfolding with our clergy. It is very inspirational when the Priest does that and you are right, it is something that feeds that empty feeling in you when you need words of wisdom from Jesus. That is the Holy Spirit at work.

24,483 posted on 02/06/2002 8:03:56 AM PST by american colleen
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To: RobbyS
I gather that the Irish will forgive the English for their crimes about the same time that the Greeks forgive the pope for Constantinople.

LOL! I was thinking of a similiar analogy, that those who agree with fortheDeclaration would forgive the RC's for the Spanish Armada and the Inquisition about the same time that the Greeks forgive the RC's for the sack of Constantinople. As I think I said to you last week, I don't agree with the Greeks on this at all and we all could bear grudges to the end of our days and teach our children to carry them from there. But are they really useful?

24,484 posted on 02/06/2002 8:08:48 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Do you not always attend catholic churches. What other kind of church do you go to.? And not to be offensive, but I have never (not an exaggeration) seen a catholic carry a bible into church on Sunday.

Not quite half the time. More frequently we attend the local bible church (very similar to Independant Baptist). Plenty of Catholics carry a bible to church, but it really isn't necessary since the readings are usually more complete (not just a single verse) and don't hop around as much. I've always thought that the Baptist notion of everybody having to turn to a verse before the pastor reads it was a little silly (especially for one verse). The KJV is prefered by better than half the congregation, but some have the NIV, some the NKJV, etc etc etc and I've always thought that it would be better for him to just read it (I'll take his word that he isn't pulling a Ben Franklin on me). I think it goes back to the idea of authority. If indivdual members don't see the verse for themselves they may not believe it.

In the pews were paperback pamphlets that I looked through, they had all the readings and mass responses for that month.

I've always thought that made things a little easier. It probably goes back to when the mass was in Latin. Do you beleive Priests are led by the HS when they give their messages?

About as often as my NC pastor. Which is to say, usually, but not always. If so how do they do that if the message is pre determined years ahead of time

The message isn't exactly predetermined, but the verses are (and they usually share a theme). The priest has great latitude on the message itself.

Several times our old pastor got up one Sunday and said we would look at such and such next Sunday, the the next Sunday would come and he would say, I had the lesson all ready but the HS has guided me to such and such. And you know that message would always be something that we all really needed at that time.

I've seen the same thing happen at both churches. A priest can certainly say "today's verses are on forgiveness, but I think we need to have a good long talk about the role of our church in local ministries to the poor".

Now you may scoff at this

Not at all. Our pastor does the same thing. We're probably about a year into a series called "from creation to glory" taking the bible from start to finish (with lots of typology references). But there have probably been 10-15 weeks where the pastor just felt a need to talk on something else. So? I only get upset when it's a particular holiday and no mention is made of, say, Mother's day.

24,485 posted on 02/06/2002 8:09:29 AM PST by IMRight
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
LOL,, my girls and I have discussed this ofter. We don't think anything smells better then horses. Don't get me wrong we wouldn't smear it on as a perfume, but we don't think it smells bad:)

Becky

I have one cat and I guarantee you he can make more stink than a wagonfull of horse biscuits.
24,486 posted on 02/06/2002 8:13:03 AM PST by OLD REGGIE
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To: Wordsmith
As I think I said to you last week, I don't agree with the Greeks on this at all and we all could bear grudges to the end of our days and teach our children to carry them from there. But are they really useful?

Indeed the magic of America is that we leave such things behind and an Irishman can marry an English girl. And a Greek a Turk, a French a German, etc. It's beautiful.

For the record, I don't really harbor any ill will towards the British, I just reserve my right to answer historical insult with historical insult. My point is usually that such contests are to no avail.

SD

24,487 posted on 02/06/2002 8:16:32 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Teaching the names of the books of the bible might be trivia, but it sure helps when someone cites a scripture - you can get to it that much faster. LOL
24,488 posted on 02/06/2002 8:19:21 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: IMRight
I only get upset when it's a particular holiday and no mention is made of, say, Mother's day.

Aw man. You gotta say a special blessing prayer for the mothers on their day.

(I'll take his word that he isn't pulling a Ben Franklin on me).

Is this some type of Quaker slur? I've never heard the phrase before. Why would Ben Franklin be associated with lying?

SD

24,489 posted on 02/06/2002 8:19:43 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain; SoothingDave
Ack! I better jump in here to clarify. I posted the bit about teaching the Creed in response to a comment from Reggie about the Orthodox being Catholic. I think I said in the same post that last night they were also reciting the Lord's Prayer, which is Scripture. We read Psalms every night before bed, and have used both children's Bibles and stories of the saints. But it is valid to say that perhaps our family is typical of the way that the Orthodox pass on the faith. We don't distinguish between teaching Scripture and teaching other parts of the faith, like the Creed. To our little ones, its all "God stuff."

And its also interesting that Orthodoxy provides some wonderful, visceral ways of drawing the children in to the life of faith. Lighting candles, smelling incense, hearing and singing chants, tasting communion, feeling the touch of a priest's hand when he blesses you, kissing a cross or Bible. We believe that God reaches out to us through all of our capacities, not just our intellect. I believe that this is one of the deficiencies in relying strictly on Scripture. It seems that it might make it easier for a child to learn that faith and God's Word is only or first or best something of the mind rather than something of the whole person.

24,490 posted on 02/06/2002 8:21:00 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: SoothingDave
Ben Franklin would often cite Scripture to back up his claims. But the "Scripture" wasn't always in the bible.

Luckily for him, Ben owned his own printing press and would reprint needed pages whenever required.

24,491 posted on 02/06/2002 8:23:05 AM PST by IMRight
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To: SoothingDave
And a Catholic can marry a Southern Baptist.
24,492 posted on 02/06/2002 8:23:45 AM PST by IMRight
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To: Irisshlass
Hi Irisshlass, welcome aboard!
24,493 posted on 02/06/2002 8:25:24 AM PST by malakhi
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To: Wordsmith
we all could bear grudges to the end of our days and teach our children to carry them from there. But are they really useful? Quite the contrary: these offenses against charity divide Christians and leave us open to the (just) charges of Voltaire and to the vengence of Robespierre. And enthusiasts, such as those who roused the East against Chalchedon in defence of St. Cyril and against Pope Leo when Cyril himself would have accepted the "two natures" , lead to a cycle of violence that we now witness in the Holy Land. Differences in doctrine so small that they can hardly been seen manage sproat into branches as large as the main trunk of the tree. Well, must off. God Bless.
24,494 posted on 02/06/2002 8:28:42 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: IMRight
All they're learning is the Creed that the congregation recites at every Liturgy:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light of light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.

And ascended in to heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father.

And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets.

And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the Resurrection of the dead. And the Life of the world to come. Amen.

24,495 posted on 02/06/2002 8:28:47 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: IMRight
All they're learning is the Creed that the congregation recites at every Liturgy:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light of light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures.

And ascended in to heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father.

And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the prophets.

And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the Resurrection of the dead. And the Life of the world to come. Amen.

24,496 posted on 02/06/2002 8:29:07 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: Wordsmith
Oops, double post. Sorry, that was weird. Oh well, at least it was something edifying! :-)
24,497 posted on 02/06/2002 8:30:13 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: Fury
I am surprised to hear from you. Didn't you have some research project that you are working on? Let me know when it is finished -- I am sooooo interested.
24,498 posted on 02/06/2002 8:30:15 AM PST by Woodkirk
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To: Wordsmith
Amen.

Interesting to note some of the language differences.

24,499 posted on 02/06/2002 8:32:41 AM PST by IMRight
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To: SoothingDave, IMRight
Don't you two have real jobs -- or is this the only work you can find?
24,500 posted on 02/06/2002 8:32:45 AM PST by Woodkirk
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