The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[hopefulpilgrim]

And if that "spirit" is only you talking to yourself? Luther was wise enough to realize that there might also be another spirit involved in all this, the one that is unholy

IMO then, there must be something very wrong with him if a child of God cannot tell the difference between the Holy Spirit within him and an unholy spirit, for God says that the sons of God are led by the Spirit of God (Rom. 8:14). They may not be perfect, but surely the Spirit of God indwelling them enables them to discern between Himself and an unholy spirit.

.... Alaternatively,allowing all good faith, there is something too psychological about this approach to the Scriptures, which is the reason I have rejected it.

God said it (what I quoted from 1 Cor.2); if you reject His Spirit and His leading, you reject Him.

[mitch5501]

"Agreed. There are millions of Catholic with little to no understanding of the things of their faith. This is to our shame and is a reason why your wife is blessed to have met you - she may never have "met" Christ in a real way within the Church but now is now bound for Heaven (unless I miss my guess). Despite all of my serious disagreements with much of Protestantism. I am infinitely more pleased with a "cradle Catholic" getting saved there than staying here in ignorance..."snip

God bless you IMRight...and I would say the same right back at you!

grace and peace to you.

[dadwags]

When does "life" begin ?
This,IMHO, is an example of development . The theologians and philosophers had been discussing that question for centuries . It was/is a question of when life "in utero" could be detected . In the 20th century, "scientists? were able to determine that life begins at conception .
That is why there is a big controversy over contraceptive measures vs. abortifacients .Interestingly enough, I don't think ANY Christians were "pro abort" prior to about 1930 --even Margaret Sanger, (founder of PP )recognized the difference .
Interestingly enough, in 1930, when the C E at lambeth, approved contraception, there was a considerable negative Prothstant reaction to this .
Scripturally, Onanism is still onanism .(Onan was the son of Judah who "spilled his seed on the ground rather than father a child for his brother's widow).
I guess the "NRCs" and "Proddies" also do a little development of doctrine and morals, even, sometimes, "contrary to scriptury" .They just CHANGE the interpretation as necessary .

[IMRight]

Interestingly enough, in 1930, when the C E at lambeth, approved contraception, there was a considerable negative Prothstant reaction to this .

True. Most churches felt that artificial contraception was sinful at the time. It was only after the RCC came down hard on the idea (and so many hippies jumped ship over the rule) that some mainline Protestants loosened their thoughts on the subject (and millions of 60's children left the RCC for other denominations).

Hey. Were all human, and sometimes humans play politics.

[malakhi]

Question. How did the Jews for thousands of years show respect to Moses for the great work God wraught through him?

I see where you are going with this! ;o)

He was considered the greatest of the prophets. But no images were made of him. After the Torah, there is little mention of him in the Hebrew scriptures. And the writings of the sages and rabbis take pains to illustrate the human failings of Moses. Contrary to the usual pagan customs, where someone like Moses would be deified, the Jews took every effort to ensure that it was understood he was just a man.

[dignan3]

R U saying that the Holy Spirit went to the trouble ; ) of "breathing" out the scriptures---inspiring them, moving upon the authors so that they "spoke from God"---but made it too hard for people to understand what they read? Relatively speaking, there is very little in the scriptures which is difficult to comprehend once it is translated into one's own language

Assuming that one is reading a faithful(as much as that is possible) translation, you are correct. For devotional reading, an accurate vernacular translation of Scriptures is just fine.

Though when one wants to engage in serious digging and exegesis, one needs to look, ultimately, to the original languages. For instance, Greek is a much more nuanced and precise language than English. Even in the best translations, some things may be lost in the translation into English even while retaining nearly all of the meaning of the Greek. That's just the nature of translations.

Also, we shouldn't neglect trying to understand the culture in which the Scriptures were written as that can help us in interpretation and understanding of idioms. What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't read Scripture through the lense of our 21^st century mindset.

Pray for the 263^rd successor of St. Peter

[malakhi]

5 For even his brothers did not believe in him

Again, it doesn't matter. Whether or not Jesus's brothers believed in him is irrelevent to their obligation to their mother.

[malakhi]

The Pharisees were given their authority by God. It was also removed by God via the Messiah. The messiah is now the interpreter and judge of the Law and the Commandments. He is the King of Isreal and of the Congregation. As such, the priesthood answers to Him and derives from Him. And the bible says we all who believe are now priests. The spirit of God is Given us to interpret for us directly. If we get it wrong, it is our fault because God made all the resources directly available to each of us. There is no excuse for failure. And the only reason for failure is disobedience to God. God knew what He was doing. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and denounced their methods and their traditions; but, you are correct that he did say they should be obeyed at the time because they still held places of authority. Upon the death and resurrection, that authority was revoked. The priesthood of old was now useless. And anyone now claiming a priestly authority has none. Teachers and Preachers are servants to be heeded. We ignore those who teach correctly to our own peril. In heeding false teachers we do that to our own peril as well.

This of course is your interpretation. You assign the messiah roles for which there is no basis in the Hebrew scriptures. You also won't find any support in the Hebrew scriptures for the idea of individual interpretation.

[malakhi]

It is my personal opinion that the beliefs at the time this doctrine was "developed" were that sex was dirty and Jesus mother couldn't have sullied herself in such a disgraceful act as to have sexual intercourse ever (even with her lawful husband).

Which certainly is not a Jewish idea. The first command in the scriptures is to "be fruitful and multiply". There is no lifelong celibacy in Judaism.

[malakhi]

2) I want to draw your attention to the un-translated aleph and tau between "G-d"and "the heaven" in Genesis 1:1

I'm afraid I don't get what point you are trying to make with this.

This also occurs in Zechariah 12:10 Where there is an un-translated aleph and tau between "look on me" and "whom they have pierced"

I think you are trying to find a parallel that isn't there. the "aleph-tau" in the Zechariah passage is part of the phrase et asher, which is properly rendered "concerning whom". The passage is properly translated:

"they will look onto Me concerning whom they have pierced and they will mourn for him"

John's gospel mistranslates this passage as "they shall look on Him whom they pierced". Which has an altogether different meaning.

[al_c]

What Scriptural proof do we have that life begins at conception?

This brings up an interesting thought. It's kind of ironic that when scientists find traces of organisms on another planet, they say that they have discovered that life once existed on that planet and most of the world agrees with them or at least takes them at their word. Yet, when a woman has an "organism" in her womb, there are those that say it's not a life, it's just a blob of cells.

Silly, isn't it?

[malakhi]

Let me give you a belated welcome, mitch. Thanks for speaking up!

[malakhi]

Now, if I wanted to go to the page that has reply #1460, I'd just click where it says 1,451-1,500. But what if I wanted to go to the page that has reply #777? How would I get directly to that page?

Go to the little box on your browser that shows the URL of the page you are viewing. It will look something like:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/548277/posts?q=1&&page=1521

DELETE the "1521" at the end, and type in "777#777" (without the quotation marks of course!):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/548277/posts?q=1&&page=777#777

When you hit enter, it will take you to that exact reply number.

[malakhi]

R U kiddin'? My knowledge of Scripture, my knowledge of the Lord, my knowledge of myself is still growing. I don't know how many times I've read a familiar verse or passage and ¡*BOOM* ! I'll suddenly understand something or notice something I'd never understood or noticed before. Lights come on all the time; and it's exciting when that happens! Like when I realized the connection between Romans 8:13 and Heb. 9:14. Perhaps something like a magic sternum or a preacher could've told me that---but that would've taken all the fun out of the discovery. I wouldn't rob anyone of the delight of being taught by the Holy Spirit as He uncovers important truths. I attended a Christian high school and a Christian university and learned a lot in Bible classes, but the things I remember best are the things I learned One on one.

Why, hopefulpilgrim, it almost sounds as if you've grown in understanding! Your beliefs haven't changed, but your understanding of your beliefs has deepened through your study of scripture.

[malakhi]

Divine intervention. I think this may be an annoying piece that goes along with an otherwise positive upgrade. I think that letting the thread run into the many thousands of posts may turn out to be be more trouble than it is worth. What thinkest thou?

See my #1753.

[OLD REGGIE]

5 For even his brothers did not believe in him

Again, it doesn't matter. Whether or not Jesus's brothers believed in him is irrelevent to their obligation to their mother.

Of course, you are correct. Jesus chose John for his own reasons. The sceculation as to why he did so depends on whether it is written by Catholic or a Protestant Apologists. (It appears it is difficult to be purely objective.)

The Scriptural story of Mary ends here and there is not much more concerning her "sons". The importance of Mary and her "Perpetual Virginity" developed over the next few hundred years. The reasons are obvious.

[al_c]

Steven, looks like you got yourself some competition in the quantity of posts race! Feeling pressure from IMRight? ;o)

Hey, IMRight ... congratulations! Your Redskins are no longer the worst team in the NFL! Boy, am I glad Dallas had a bye week this week.

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ALL: Good morning, everone!

Monday, October 22, 2001

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Romans 4:20-25 Luke 1:69-75 Luke 12:13-21 Christ made my soul beautiful with the jewels of grace and virtue. I belong to Him whom the angels serve.  -- St. Agnes

From wau.org ...

What's the greatest treasure anyone could possess? In this parable, the rich landowner is so far from the right answer that God gives him a stunning rebuke: "You fool!" (Luke 12:20). We usually read this as an insult. But perhaps it's intended more as a lament--an expression of sorrow over the blindness of "fools" who "despise wisdom and instruction" (Proverbs 1:7). Perhaps God is saying, "I want you to live happily and know true success! How deeply grieving it is when you seek what is harmful and foolish for your life, rather than what is good!"

Why did Jesus portray the landowner as unwise or foolish? Not for his industriousness, but for his egoism and selfishness. Like the rich man in another of Jesus' parables (Luke 16:19-31), this wealthy man had lost the capacity to be concerned for others. His life was consumed with his possessions, and his only interest was in himself. His death was the final loss of his soul.

Jesus' parable of the rich fool is a lesson about possessions. He is warning us not to covet or be possessive. At the same time, he promises us that God will reward those who seek their treasure in him. God is generous, and he wants us to trust in his providential care. This is why Jesus tells us not to worry or be anxious about our life, career, and future (Luke 12:22-31). Jesus offers us assurance about our daily needs, while pointing us to a treasure beyond compare: abundant life and happiness with God, both now and forever.

Where is your treasure? Can you let Jesus probe your heart, the center of your desire and longing, of your will and focus? Whatever we most set our heart on is our highest treasure. Have you set it on Jesus, the highest treasure of all?

"Lord, free me from possessiveness, that I may know the joy of having you as my treasure and portion. Give me a generous heart. Help me to make good use of the material blessings you have given me for your glory and the good of others, especially those in need."

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I leave you with this image from Rio de Janeiro's Corcovado Mountain dated Oct. 11. Leaders from many faiths gathered to celebrate the 70th year of this famous monument to our savior and to also remember the victims of the attack on America just one month before.

Peace be with you.

[malakhi]

The world is the worst cult of all and yet where is the de-programming?

This bears repeating. I may steal this one for future use! ;o)