Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Yuk yuk yuk. You are so funny. Now I wonder about those folks sitting on just the one leg (Scripture). Perhaps it accounts for their posture?
(Or, can we try not to be insulting?)
SD
Click here then enter the word obey in the search field at the lower right. It will return a complete indexed search. You can click on the citation link to browse and see each verse in full context & there is a strong's link next to each citation link if you want to make use of the concordance.
Reggie, please clear this up for me, did allend actually give you a link that proves the Catholics know Mary had children after Jesus by their own CE website?
Tell me I missed something, my head is spinning.|-(
Your post sound like one of those "fly to London for only..." advertisements.
Your post sound like one of those "fly to London for only..." advertisements.
I'm waiting for an explanation! How could anyone make a mistake like that, how could the Catholic web sites have two completly opposing views on the same subject?
And we are supposed to be in chaos?
Starters:
Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 18:[9] "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. [10] There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, [11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [12] For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. [13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. [14] For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so [to do]."
Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Now what does the Lord say about these people? 2 Chronicles 33:6 "And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. " Hmmm. These things provoke the Lord to anger? To what extent?:
Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.
1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, [even] against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking [counsel] of [one that had] a familiar spirit, to enquire [of it];
God specifically says not to have part in the works of wizards (necromancers included in that). He specifically states elsewhere that those who practice their arts should be killed. And he further links wizards and those with familiar spirits to communicating with the dead.
Now, Want to tell me how you have the right to teach anyone that it is not forbidden? There is more where that comes from. Care to guess how many times prohibitions against wizards and those with familiar spirits are mentioned in the OT alone? And would anyone care to eat some words regarding Deuteronomy yet? Three in a row in Deuteronomy verse 18:11 all having to do with communing with the dead and so linked and charged within the text of the Bible. All three arts condemned and practicers of such arts to suffer death! And God saying in Isaiah 'shouldn't they be turning to Me concerning the dead?'
Wow, I wonder why God's word also speaks against the worship of the dead, lest we forget a certain couple at the heart of the Mithraic rites who are mentioned in the Bible.
What is that, twice in how many threads that Catholic answers torpedoed their own claim amidships! Long sided full volley. Flush tubes three and four and spin up two more. LOL
I'm happy to disagree with you though (just for forms sake) :-)
I guess that if you don't find it overwhelming that Mary has at least 6 other children besides Jesus, and still remained a Virgin, I will take those tickets to London.:-)
Is it from fear of being wrong that they puffed themselves up and lorded themselves over the people - no. Try again.
We all know that no one who uses reason and logic can deny the truth when it is shown to him, or deny being wrong when he is so proven.
Ah, that is why we still have an ongoing debate over evolution, right. The argument has long been proven wrong on many points, yet those who champion reason and logic have not surrendered the fight in face of the truth. And that being a single example, let's look to Communism. The truth of Communism was long known before the fall of the Soviet Union. Truth didn't cause the fall, money did followed by a lack of willpower by those who yet controlled. And the example didn't make the Chinese change their minds. Finally, truth did not prevail for a certain scientist who showed truth to a certain Pope was judged before a tribunal and sentenced for daring to challenge the Pope about truth. The world just had to be flat because the pope said so. PULL the other one.
Reason and Logic are not opposed to God. Reason and Logic are of God Himself. There is no actual misuse of reason/logic (now wait just a minute what did I just say?) only a failing to use them. The wisdom of man, spoken of in the Bible was not the wisdom of the true Philosopher, the wisdom decried in the Bible was anti-wisdom, anti-reason, and anti-logic.
No, the wisdom of man spoken of in the Bible is just what the Bible said the wisdom of man (exclusive). And a differentiation is made between man's wisdom and that of God. Furthermore, the wisest man that ever lived was Solomon - and his wisdom came from where? God gave it to him - not at birth, God gave Solomon spiritual wisdom!
logic and reason prove the opposite.
Do they now.
How, I ask you does one argue with a person who denies any use of logic? Without logic there are no absolutes, without logic there is no way to prove anything. And, how can one argue with a person who denies reason? Without reason there is no common framer for argument, without reason there can be no debate.
As usual with you guys, you never can get it right, can you. Logic and reason may be employed to better explain things. But, your individual logic and reason - absent that of God, cannot understand the spiritual truths of God. I say things like that and you say I denounce logic and reason across the board in order to set up your strawman which you can't even tear down yourself. I can throw wrenches in 3/4 of your argument. But I'm not writing a book.
The answer is: I can't argue with that person, you see, I can never prove that person wrong no matter what. And, he could never prove me wrong because he would have to use logic and appeal to my reason.
Anything else to cry about while you're at it, or would you rather just ask how you can get the holy spirit and learn something?
It's been a particulary busy couple of days at work.
Berasheet bara Elohiem (Aleph Tav or Alpha Omega) ..........
In the beginning G-d(s) the Alpha & Omega created from nothing the heaven and earth.......
Do I read that right?
Tehillim (Psalm) 62:1 My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.
Tehillim (Psalm) 62:2 He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I shall never be shaken.
XeniaSt
Oh, btw, my comment was to the extent that Logic cannot be used to make jesus words mean something other than their spiritual meaning. Jesus said that men had to believe in him to have eternal life, then turned around and used a metaphor to restate it after he'd said it a couple of times. Your logic tries to make the metaphor the focus of attention rather than the point the metaphor was employed to make. Your logic loses to the truth. QED.
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