Does Arabia belong to the Jews?

Islamic Facts ^ | 10/14/01 | ?????

[janus]

Ka’aba The House Of Allah

In the province of Hejaz in the western part of Arabia, not far from the Red Sea, there lies the town of Makka. In the centre of this town there is a small square building made of stones, about 60 feet long, 60 feet wide and 60 feet high. Since time immemorial this town and this stone built house has been known to world travellers. This is Baitullah, the House of Allah. Its sanctity and antiquity is older than history itself. Tradition goes that the Kaaba was ordained by Allah to be built in the shape of the House in Heaven called Baitul Ma’amoor. Allah in his infinite Mercy ordained a similar place on earth and Prophet Adam was the first to build this place. The Bible, in the Chapter of Genesis describes its building when God ordained Abraham to erect a Shrine for worship when Abraham was ordered to go to the Southern desert with his wife Hagera and infant son Ismael. The Old Testament describes this building as the Shrine of God at several places, but the one built at Ma’amoor is very much similar to the one at Makka. There is no doubt that it was referring to the stone built house at Makka.

Qora’an brought this story into the full light of history. In Sura 3 Verse 90 Qora’an says “Allah has spoken the Truth, therefore follow the creed of Ibrahim, a man of pure faith and no idolater”. The first house established for the people was at Makka, a Holy place and a guidance to all beings. Qora’an firmly establishes the fact that Ibrahim was the real founder of the Holy Shrine.

[janus]

If this is true, then Saudi Arabia should rightly belong to the Jews. Or am I missing something?

[MitchellC]

If it were true, then maybe. But Abraham never travelled that far south according to the Bible; that's just some Islamic/Qur'anic legend. I'm thinking I've seen this rebutted in full somewhere on the net, and if I can find it I'll post a link to it here later on.

[MitchellC]

Also, let me add that even if that were true, then the Muslims would dispute who 'rightfully owns' Arabia because they believe that Ishmael was the 'rightful heir' of God's promise to Abraham instead of Isaac, since (according to their argument) Ishmael was Abraham's first son biologically-speaking, and that should settle it.

As can be seen from the article above where Hagar is called Abraham's "wife", Muslims have a much different (and, not historically-supported) view of the Abe/Hagar/Ishmael/God's promise relationship than Judaism and Christianity do.

[ikanakattara]

I think Sarah would have disputed that Hagar was Abraham's "wife."

[etcetera]

Using the Arabs' technique of disinformation, Israel should lay claim to Arabia. Say it loud and say it often and more people will start to believe it.

[Illbay]

My Twelfth-great Grandfather once owned an entire island, called "Itamaca", off the coast of what is now Brazil. He was chased out, along with other Dutch settlers, by the Portugese.

I want my island back.

[tbeatty]

And the U.S. belongs to Native Americans. yeah, right.

Last time I checked, Adam, Ismael, Isaac and Abrahim are dead. I don't think they posess anything.

[boris]

Since there is a finite amount of territory on Earth, nations acquire and lose territory by one of only two methods: by conquest or by purchase.

A piece of territory "belongs" to whoever can stand on it, defend and keep it against others.

I would love to see a counterexample; however in the entire history of the world there is not a single one. It would take the form of the "owners" of land inviting others to take it over. Oops. I just thought of one: the American Southwest, circa 2000 A.D.

--Boris

[Star Traveler]

Since there is a finite amount of territory on Earth, nations acquire and lose territory by one of only two methods: by conquest or by purchase.
A piece of territory "belongs" to whoever can stand on it, defend and keep it against others.
I would love to see a counterexample; however in the entire history of the world there is not a single one.

Well, I would say that the land of Israel is rather unique, in that respect (in the world). It's a piece of land that God said was His, and that He reserved to Himself (out of all the world). He basically said the whole world was His, and He reserved this land of Israel for Himself -- and the rest of the nations could have the rest of the world to use. And so, this particular land, He claims for Himself and then gives it to the nation of Israel (the people, of which, He chose, Himself) to take care of it for Him. It will be the land of the Messiah, when He returns to earth to rule over all the nations of the world -- at the time He sets up His kingdom.

I would say that this is fairly unique. I don't recall that from any other nation.

[MHGinTN]

Oh, the dispute is more pervasive than that; the kaaba is said to have been built by Adam. Abram rebuilt it. Poor Mohammed didn't realize that the patriarch's name was Abram until God's covenant relationship was established. But the 'prophet' can be excused for such erros because he couldn't read the hebrew to check these things, so people had to read the founding documents to him and he had to remember them in order to dictate the Koran. I think he was bordering on genius to accomplish the task, but he was also possibly epileptic, suffering seizures and dementia.

[Diogenesis]

" suffering seizures and dementia."

Isn't that what they say about Omar, the Chief Taliban?

[Sabertooth]

"If this is true, then Saudi Arabia should rightly belong to the Jews. Or am I missing something?"

Works for me. The next time all of the Arabs attack Israel and Israel knocks the snot out of them again, Israel gets permanent dibs on their land.

In fact, you know those two blue stripes on the Israeli flag? They Represent the Nile and the Euphrates, the traditional borders of Israel, east and west.

If we give Israel everything between those rivers, north and south, then they get to keep Arabia.

50 cent gas, yippeee!

[dennisw]

http://members.aye.net/~abrupt/house/islam2.html

Islam: A Brief History

Frequently when we hear of terrorist attacks or barbarous acts committed by followers of the Muslim faith, we also hear the terrorists or barbarians described as "Muslim fundamentalists," as if there are Muslims who do not believe that the entirety of the Koran is literally true. One of the major tenets of the Islamic faith is that the Koran was written by God through Mohammed and is therefore without error and infallible. Heretics who suggest that the Koran may not be wholly true or erroneous are subject to all sorts of punishment, persecution and prosecution. There is no Muslim tradition of religious freedom or "live and let live," unless you count the brief time that Muslims were a minority people in an unfriendly country.

Islam began in 610 CE when a successful trader named Mohammed, living in Mecca, experienced visions and announced that he had been anointed by God. The pagan leaders of Mecca ignored Mohammed until he started attacking their gods publicly. Wealthy merchants were intimidated by Mohammed's power and therefore plotted to decrease his influence. As hostility rose, Mohammed found it convenient to preach tolerance for all religions so that his own could thrive.

As the climate grew worse, Mohammed decided that it was time for an emigration. In 622, he met some people from Medina who invited him to move to their city and offered to protect him while he preached God's word. At the time, Medina was inhabited by eight large clans of Arabs and three major clans of Jews, all of whom had been feuding for years. Mohammed sought to establish himself as a political leader by mediating between the various clans; through his efforts he arranged it so that all grievances and problems would be laid before him, Allah's representative on Earth. He continued to preach religious tolerance between the pagans, Jews and Muslims, although the Jews openly disputed his claims to prophethood. A new Constitution of Medina was written which guaranteed rights and duties to the Jews of Medina. It also granted the powers of war to Mohammed, who was eager to use them against his Meccan enemies.

After only six months in this new city, Mohammed sent out groups of raiders to attack Meccan trading caravans. His attacks succeeded only when he scheduled them during the Meccan sacred month, which shocked his supporters and detractors alike. Mohammed's relationship with Jews became more strained as he became more powerful. They criticized his teachings, calling them self-contradictory. Realizing that the existence of Jews in Medina threatened his goal of total power, he threw his claims of religious tolerance out the door and had all Jews in Medina killed or exiled, at one point declaring, "Kill any Jew who falls into your power." The sole exception was the tribe of Qurayza, supporters of the Prophet.

In 624, the Prophet Mohammed learned that a rich Meccan caravan was going to pass by Medina and accordingly sent out a large raiding party. The Meccans knew of Mohammed's plans in advance and had sent along a vastly superior army to teach the Prophet and his Muslims a lesson. Unfortunately for the Meccans, and for the rest of the world, the Muslims found great inspiration in Allah and won the battle decisively. Mohammed continued such raids for years, winning several battles, until the Meccans besieged Medina in 627. The siege was unsuccessful and when the Meccans withdrew, Mohammed had the remaining Jewish clan of Qurayza destroyed -- the men slaughtered and thrown in ditches, the women sold into slavery, and property divvied up.

By 630, Mohammed's enemies had had enough of the skirmishes and battles. That year, they signed a treaty with him that permitted the Muslims to make pilgrimages to Mecca. At first he went along with the treaty, but Mohammed was soon powerful enough to break the treaty and conquer Mecca. Shortly after this he commanded the allegiances of all the Arab tribes of Central Arabia and envisioned conquering Rome itself before his death in 632.

Mohammed sounds more like a successful warlord than a Prophet -- more like a Napoleon or Hitler than a holy man on a mission from God. His method of government did not rely on bureaucracy, secular ideology or police powers, but rather a cruel new religion that, like many young faiths, borrowed heavily from existing traditions and slapped a fresh coat of gibberish on it. Like Christianity, Islam expanded from a minor local phenomenon to a transcontinental death machine. Unlike Christianity, Islam is not on the wane. It is on the rise.

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[Cicero]

As you (and the following post) say, the Koran changes the account in Genesis in several fundamental ways. Ishmael becomes the inheritor instead of Isaac, and Sarah is demoted to Abraham's second wife, instead of his only true wife. The passing on of the Abrahamic Covenant through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the most essential point from the Jewish and Christian points of view.

This is one of the issues on which the Koran simply contradicts the Hebrew Bible, which the Christian New Testament never does.

OTOH, Arabs and Jews are both Semites, closely related in their origins--which of course only increases the hatred that Arabs feel for Jews. The Jews felt the same way about the Samaritans.

[Fred25]

Last time I checked, Adam, Ismael, Isaac and Abrahim are dead. I don't think they posess anything.

I’d like to see a complete title search done on that property.

[ppaul]

If the Saudis don't stop supporting and harboring terrorists, post haste, Saudi Arabia will belong to the Jews!

[nkycincinnatikid]

Of course it does

[MitchellC]

How exactly is/was Christianity a "transcontinental death machine"?