A RESPONSE from Old Testament Scriptures to Bin Laden et al's rants and the violence of the Koran

The thought occurred to me . . . to look up and consider what might be said to such as the above who seem to pass smelly gas out of both ends . . .

I did not even list all the Scriptures that might reasonably be construed to apply to such geographic regions. I believe these are quite representative of the Biblical prophecies yet to be fulfilled about such regions and peoples.

Some might argue that some of the Scriptures refer to past events. It is conceivable. However, whether they did or not, I content that they ALSO apply to the future--the near future--at least the lifetimes of those alive in 1948--and possibly the next 1-12 years. In any case, that is my construction and assumption and the context within which I'd enjoy dialogue about these Scriptures. I'm not interested in debating those issues.

If there are scholars hereon who can shed more light on some of the obscure place/peoples names, that would be wonderful.

I believe these verses can GIVE COMFORT to those who may be prone to despairing that the likes of Ben Laden will ever get their proper treatment. Given the vagaries of world geopolitics, that might be a valid concern--wondering if OBL will ever suffer defeat. . . . witness Iraq and the Gulf war.

I believe these verses can also be sobering and exhortive, edifying for those of us apt to be complacent and lazy about our prayers for our own good old U.S. of A. and our good President Bush called to stand in a very hazardous gap in this age.

I believe these verses can be curiosities and eventually very instructive and edifying for those open-minded, fair-minded skeptics; nominal Christians; people of little if any faith or religious convictions. For such people willing to read through the lot, I have a serious curiosity I'd love to have some opinions on--asked at the end of this msg.

I'm not very eager or willing to get into energetic debate with staunch skeptics and detractors etc. who get their bowels in an uproar at any hint of such discussions. They are welcome to sit on their piles and moan elsewhere.

I was struck by the fit of these Scriptures--many of which I haven't read for some time. They were compiled via a quick and cursory scanning of a list of references from the Bible Gateway at:

The search words were "Moab" and "Edom"--parts of areas, as I understand it, in Bible times of what are now called Saudi Arabia and Jordan.

Psalm 60:8-9 "Moab is my washbasin, upon Edom I will toss my sandal; over Philistia I shout in triumph."

If my understanding of the Bible maps is any clue--Edom and Moab get into at least Saudi Arabian land and probably some of Jordan. Philistia might have something to do with Gaza?

Psalm 83:5-18: "With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you--the tents of Edom and the Ismaelites, of Moab and the descendants of Hagar, Gebal, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia, with the people of Tyre [Lebanon?]. Even Assyria [Syria?] has joined them to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.

Do to them as you did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon, who perished at Endor and became like refuse on the ground. Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb, all their princes like Zebah and Zamunna, who said, 'Let us take possession of the pasturelands of God.' make them like tumbleweed, O my God, like chaff before the wind.

As fire consumes the forest or a flame sets the mountains ablaze, so pursue them with your tempest and terrify them with your storm. Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O Lord.

Let them know that you, whose Name is The Lord--that You alone are Most High over all the earth."

They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia to the west; together they will plunder the people to the east. They will lay hands on Edom and moab, and the Ammonites will be subject to them.

The Lord will dry up the gulf of the Egyptian sea; with a scorching wind He will sweep His hand over the Euphrates River. He will break it up into seven streams so that men can cross over in sandals.

There will be a highway for the remnant of His people that is left from Assyria, as there was for Israel when they came up from Egypt." [Have read that a highway exists in that region, now from even as far as China--for the first time in history]

Your caravans of Dedanites, who camp in the thickets of Arabia, bring water for the thirsty; you who live in Tema, bring food for the fugitives. They flee from the sword, from the drawn sword, from the bent bow and from the heat of battle.

This is what the Lord says to me: ‘Within one year [Q: I have no idea from when], as a servant bound by contract would count it, all the pomp of Kedar will come to an end. The survivors of the bowmen, the warriors of Kedar, will be few.’ The Lord, the God of Israel has spoken.”

For The Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause, Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur [Q: some see this as evidence of atomic and/or volcanic devastations hitting these areas]; her land will become blazing pitch!

It will not be quenched night and day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again [Q: evidence it has yet to come to pass].

The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will strech out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

Her nobles will have nothing there to be called a kingdom, all her princes will vanish away.

Thorns will overrun her citadels, nettles and brambles her strongholds. She will become as a haunt for jackals, a home for owls.”

SEE ISAIAH 61—62 for a stark contrast of how God will bless Israel after the traumas. And 63:1=6 regarding The Lord’s wrath on the nations of the world.

A sobering exhortation and warning that also evidently includes Israel and perhaps all who fit the criteria: Jeremiah 9:25-26

“The days are coming,” declares The Lord, “when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh[rather than a heart of a proper attitude toward God and humility re one’s self]—Egypt, Judah, Edom, Ammon, Moab and all who live in the desert in distant places. For all these nations are really uncircumcised and even the whole house of Israel is uncircumcised in heart.”

“This is what The Lord, the God of Israel, said to me: ‘Take from my hand this cup filled with the wine of my wrath and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they drink it, they will stagger and go mad because of the sword I will send among them.’ So I took the cup from The Lord’s hand and made all the nations to whom He sent me drink it: Jerusalem and the towns of Judah, its kings and officials, to make them a ruin and an object of horror and scorn and cursing, as they are today; Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people, and all the foreign people there, all the kings of Uz; all the kings of the Philistines (those of Askelon, Gaza, Ekron, and the people left at Asdod); Edom, Moab and Ammon; all the kings of Tyre and Sidon; the kings of the coastlands across the sea [Q: some read into this the USA]; Dedan, Tema, Buz and all who are in distant places; all the kings of Arabia and all the kings of the foreign people who live in the desert; all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media; and all the kings of the north, near and far, one after the other—all the kingdoms on the face of the earth. And after all of them, the king of Sheshach [a cryptogram for Babylon] will drink it too.”

“Then tell them, ‘This is what The Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you. . . . . See I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword upon all who live on the earth,’ declares The Lord Almighty. . . . .”

31 “The tumult will resound to the ends of the earth, for The Lord will bring charges against the nations; He will bring judgment on all mankind and put the wicked to the sword” declares The Lord . . .

33 At that time [Q: the evidence strongly indicates our era] those slain by The Lord will be everywhere—from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like refuse lying on the ground.” [Q Some contend that is because of the radioactivity resident in the bones, particularly].

“Moab will be destroyed as a nation because she defied The Lord. Terror and pit and snare await you, O people of Moab,” declares The Lord. Whoever flees from the terror will fall into a pit, whoever climbs out of the pit will be caught in a snare; for I will bring upon Moab the year of her punishment,” declares The Lord.

In the shadow of Hesbon the fugitives stand helpless, for a fire has gone out from Heshbon, a blaze from the midst of Sihon; it burns the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of the noisy boasters. Woe to you, O Moab! The people of Chemosh are destroyed; your sons are taken into exile and your daughters into captivity. Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come,” declares The Lord. “Here ends the judgment on Moab.”

“Is there no longer wisdom in Teman? Has counsel perished from the prudent? Has their wisdom decayed? Turn and flee, hide in deep caves, you who live in Dedan,. for I will bring disaster on Esau at the time when I punish him. . . .

“But I will strip Esau bare; I will uncover his hiding places, so that he cannot conceal himself. His children, relatives and neighbors will perish, and he will be no more.”

“Leave your orphans; I will protect their lives. Your widows too can trust in me.”

12 This is what The Lord says: ‘If those who do not deserve to drink the cup must drink it, why should you go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, but must drink it. I swear by myself,’ declares The Lord, ‘that Bozrah will become a ruin and an object of horror, of reproach and of cursing; and all its towns will be in ruins forever.’ “ . . . .16 . . . Though you build your nest as high as the eagle’s, from there I will bring you down,’ declares The Lord. Edom will become an object of horror; all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff because of all its wounds. As Sodom and Gomorrah were overthrown, along with their neighboring towns,’ says The Lord, ‘so no one will live there; no man will dwell in it.”

19 “Like a lion coming up from Jordan’s thickets to a rich pastureland, I will chase Edom from its land in an instant. . . . . 21 At the sound of their fall the earth will tremble; their cry will resound to the Red Sea.”

22 “Look! An eagle [Q: some read into this the USA] will soar and swoop down, spreading its wings over Bozrah.” In that day the hearts of Edom’s warriors will be like the heart of a woman in labor.”

“Hamath and Arpad are dismayed, for they have heard bad news. They are disheartened, troubled like the restless sea. Damascus has become feeble, she has turned to flee and panic has gripped her; anguish and pain have seized her, pain like that of a woman in labor. Why has the city of renown not been abandoned, the town in which I delight? Surely, her young men will fall in the streets; all her soldiers will be silenced in that day,” declares The Lord Almighty. “I will set fire to the walls of Damascus; it will consume the fortresses of Ben-Hadad.” [Q: Some see in that an atomic bomb on Damascus because of the WALLS being burned.

“The word of The Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir; prophesy against it and say: ‘This is what The Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Mount Seir, and I will stretch out my hand against you and make you a desolate waste. I will turn your towns into ruins and you will be desolate. Then you will know that I am The Lord.’”

“’Because you harbored an ancient hostility and delivered the Israelites over to the sword at the time of their calamity, the time their punishment reached its climax, therefore as surely as I live, declares The Sovereign Lord, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you.

7 “I will make Mount Seir a desolate waste and cut off from it all who come and go. I will fill your mountains with the slain; those killed by the sword will fall on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines. I will make you desolate forever; your towns will not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am The Lord.

“Then you will know that I The Lord have heard all the contemptible things you have said against the mountains of Israel. You said, ‘They have been laid waste and have been given over to us to devour.’ 13You boasted against me and spoke against me without restraint, and I heard it. This is what The Sovereign Lord says: “While the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. Because you rejoiced when the inheritance of the house of Israel became desolate, that is how I will treat you. You will be desolate, O Mount Seir, you and all of Edom. Then they will know that I am The Lord.”

Joel 3:19-21 “But Egypt will be desolate, Edom a desert waste, because of violence done to the people of Judah, in whose land they shed innocent blood. Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem through all generations. Their bloodguilt, which I have not pardoned, I will pardon.” The Lord dwells in Zion!”

“For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Becasuse he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders, I will set fire to the walls of Rabbah that will consume her fortresses amid war cries on the day of battle, amid violent winds on a stormy day. . .”

In that day, I will restore David’s fallen tent. I will repair it’s broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be, so that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations that bear my name,” [Septuagint: so that the remnant of men and all the nations that bear my name may seek The Lord] declares The Lord; who will do these things. . . . .

14” I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them.” says The Lord your God. Q: Given Israel’s return in 1948, I am convinced she will never again be totally uprooted regardless of Ben Laden or a many millions of Ben Laden’s. And, I believe at some point, the U.S. will cease to be her protector in order for God Almighty to obviously be her only protector.

I would be very interested in knowing IF there are any nominal Christians or fair-minded non-Christians who have read the above Scriptures AND who

A) had some sort of emotional, spiritual, intellectual light go on as they did--something that strongly said there WAS a fit that they hadn't noticed or known of before.

And/or

B) Had a marked intellectual asent, understanding that such seem to apply more than they might have thought beforehand.

Ge:12:1: Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Ge:12:2: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Ge:12:3: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

How about these verses? The Lord lays it out, plain and simple. If a person or country blesses the Jews, God will bless them. If a man or a country curses the Jews then the curse of God, the Ancient of Days is upon them. Do the muslim countries ever cease from cursing the Jews and Israel? The curse of God Almighty is upon them all and one day they will all be destroyed because of their hatred of the Jews, IMHO.

I found your article very interesting. While I have become a firm believer in the past fifteen years. I am being asked many questions by nominal or non- believers, especially now. It is difficult for those that have not tried to learn about the Bible, scriptures or God to understand. Scripture goes way over their heads and they tend to cling to their false beliefs because it is simply easier. Like anything else in life, knowledge and being informed- in order to make any decision is work. Many aren't willing to give the time or energy to find out truth....look for some negative comments and let God sort them out. Blessings to you.

I have prayed much on this general subject lately. I am begining to think the OT has little relevance to the current situation. God wants to save not destroy islam.

The hardline islamic states are preventing their people from hearing the Gospel. Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all the world. It is arguable the islamic world is the last unpreached area of the world. What is going on may, somehow, result in enough political change that the Gospel is allowed.

The OT prophecies will be fulfilled, but I don't think until all the lost have had an opportunity to hear His Word.

BTW, thanks for the post!

How about:

Psalms 27:1 <> The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Nor Terrorist

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thanks for your comment.

I don't think anyone I know has the timing or even the sequence of God's plan for the end times all figured out. I don't believe it is HIS time for it to be that known. And I don't know if it will ever be obviously known by those not sensitive to His voice, covered in His Blood.

I guess my feeling is that He is against Islam if only because it's another gospel--not the Good News of Jesus The Christ. But He is NOT against people who believe in Islam. . . per se. . . at least not the nonviolent sincere believer who doesn't know any better. His Compassions are beyond our comprehension for all made in His image.

But our era will also discover some limits of His patience.

Appreciated your comment.

For sure.

An interesting feeling on observing the towers falling in real time--I happened to be watching CNN while working on school work at my computer. . .

That flavor of Peace that passes all understanding began to descend on me. . . and maybe a bit of a relief, paradoxically . . . I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE that when the enemy comes in like a flood, God raises up a standard against him.

So I began to rejoice at a deeper and a more overt level at God's coming forth more obviously in our era as a result of the enemy's moves.

It is true that Jesus will not return until every last ear has heard the Good News. However, there is coming a time that there will be those who will not hear and will be blinded from the truth. That being said, I think that Sept. 11 has ushered in the last Great Revival for the world, and time is of the essence. We as Christians must do all we can to fulfill the Great Commission, NOW.

Plus, these hardline Islamic gov'ts might think they are keeping the Gospel from their people, but with all the multitude of ways we can get in there to tell, I think it is possible that most have heard about Jesus by now. You can get this info via cellphone, and you have to admit cellphones are literally everywhere. And most assuredly they heard Billy Graham say it one more time on Sept. 14 via worldwide broadcast. Sure some of those people don't have TV's, but so many do. Word of mouth broadcast, even when denouncing the Gospel unknowlingly spreads the Good News even farther. That's the beauty of it.Also, many of us spread the Gospel with our actions, as well as our words.

And yes, the OT is as revelevant today as it was when it all happened. Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah were all talking about events that would come to pass in the near future (closer to their time), and they prophecied about events way off in the future; possibly in our time.

I think I understand your perspective and have a sizeable appreciation for it.

A number of verses in the OT are quite disturbing to a peace loving character who hates to harm furry critters even for needed food.

But there is a majesty and an authority that commands some kind of respect and awe. AND it is MUCH CLOSER to the midset, the idiom, the gestalt, the perspectives of the Middle Eastern cultures--even of most Asian oriental cultures than the NT.

And, I don't really think Almighty God needs apology. He IS what He IS. Thankfully, MERCY triumphs over judgment.

But He is not the Almighty Woosse.

He IS ALMIGHTY GOD! And there are/can be some very stark implications of that. Even Christ says those who won't fall on Him and be broken--as in of broken and contrite, humble heart--will be CRUSHED under Him.

These are realities that cultures closer to the nitty gritties of life seem to understand and accept much more clearly and readily than our own.

Comparatively, we seem to live in a kind of denial, cotton-candy lala land. . . . of denial and unreality.

I don't think there is a pat answer to the problem you articulate. I think we have to be led of His Spirit and trust that He will work things out individually for all who seek to know Him in spirit and truth.

HE declares that those who seek Him SHALL find Him.

Appreciated your comment.

I'll tell you this--I SURE PERK UP AND PAY CLOSER ATTENTION WHENEVER I hear of Russia doing anything having any implications at all on the Middle East and particularly on Israel.

I don't know the timing or even the sequencing. I don't know for certain even when Ezek 38 & 39 will occur vis a vis when the 3rd Temple will be rebuilt.

But the time is certainly NOT getting further away!!!

My current convictions (which tend to be vulnerable to additional prayerful pondering as well as other inputs) seem to be of the ilk that such fulfillment could sure happen within some months to a few years.

But I just want to stay repented up, prayed up and sensitive to The Voice of my Lord. . . . and to make hay while the SON shines.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.